Do orcs in gaming display parallels to colonialist propaganda?

[S'mon]

Again, I don't give a fetid dingo's kidney about your friends. Really, really don't.

This rather sounds like you're trying to be offensive.

 

[Hussar]

Would you find "What's your ethnicity?" less offensive than "Where are you from?"

You can advocate for "Don't ask don't tell" and for offence-taking all you like, but it's still a bad idea IMO.

This rather sounds like you're trying to be offensive.

Going to take this in reverse order.

Sorry. You are absolutely right. I let my mouth get ahead of me. There's no need for that. It's just that, as both my children are half-Japanese, it's a very, very touchy subject for me. Because, my kids are Canadian and are as Canadian as anyone else. So, when they repeatedly get questioned about their nationality, it's insulting as all get out. Because, I'm going to tell you, no one else ever gets questioned like this.

As to the first quote, do you often ask strangers their ethnicity? Do you often ask anyone their ethnicity? How often do you ask white friends, "So, where are you from?" and when they say, "England", or whatever country, do you then repeat the question until you drill down where their ancestors were born? Do you do this repeatedly?

Because, that's what happens when you are Asian in many Western countries. Saying, "I'm Canadian" is apparently never quite good enough.

So, yeah, I wouldn't blame anyone for getting incredibly offended when strangers somehow feel that they are entitled to ask my ethnicity.

 

[S'mon]

As to the first quote, do you often ask strangers their ethnicity? Do you often ask anyone their ethnicity? How often do you ask white friends, "So, where are you from?" and when they say, "England", or whatever country, do you then repeat the question until you drill down where their ancestors were born? Do you do this repeatedly?

I ask white friends/acquaintances who don't appear to be ethnic English where they are from, yes. If someone has eg an Irish accent I may ask which part of Ireland. I asked my player who turned out to be Greek where she was from, a couple weeks ago.

I think "Where are you from?" is better than "What's your ethnicity". I understand why the interaction of various cultural elements in Anglo settler countries (USA, Australia, Canada, NZ) has caused the offence-taking to arise. That doesn't make it a good thing.

I think I should recuse myself from this thread now. I had a good discussion and learned a fair bit.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I ask white friends/acquaintances who don't appear to be ethnic English where they are from, yes. If someone has eg an Irish accent I may ask which part of Ireland. I asked my player who turned out to be Greek where she was from, a couple weeks ago.

I think "Where are you from?" is better than "What's your ethnicity". I understand why the interaction of various cultural elements in Anglo settler countries (USA, Australia, Canada, NZ) has caused the offence-taking to arise. That doesn't make it a good thing.

I think I should recuse myself from this thread now. I had a good discussion and learned a fair bit.

It is possible this is a US thing, but it is generally something we don't do here, or we know you are not supposed to do. I think it is largely because the US is a multi-racial, multi-ethnic place, but Asians are the ones who always seem to get asked this question. So that is why they did that video. I am sure if it happened to other groups all the time, there would be a video for them as well. There is a difference though between people born here and people who immigrated here. My wife isn't from the US and she doesn't mind if people ask where she is from (but she has an accent). When I was a kid, you saw more of this kind of thing. But these days it is definitely something most people would know is going to be an issue if you ask.

EDIT: Also the US is huge, so this stuff might vary a lot from one state to another. The concerns in Massachusetts are different from Denver and different from Hawaii or Minnesota. Here is Boston for example, it is still very common for people to ask about your ethnic heritage right off the bat (and people carry those ethnic more than they seem to in the midwest or California (at least in my experience). But even here, asking an Asian person 'where are you from' would be bad form.

 

[Hussar]

I ask white friends/acquaintances who don't appear to be ethnic English where they are from, yes. If someone has eg an Irish accent I may ask which part of Ireland. I asked my player who turned out to be Greek where she was from, a couple weeks ago.

I think "Where are you from?" is better than "What's your ethnicity". I understand why the interaction of various cultural elements in Anglo settler countries (USA, Australia, Canada, NZ) has caused the offence-taking to arise. That doesn't make it a good thing.

I think I should recuse myself from this thread now. I had a good discussion and learned a fair bit.

*Takes a very deep breath.*

I'm really sorry [MENTION=463]S'mon[/MENTION]. I value your contribution to the thread and I certainly don't want to chase you away. Again, totally letting my own hang ups get the better of me. You in no way deserved that. This is a really touchy subject for me, and I reacted poorly.

/edit - weird multipost stuff corrected.

I'd also point out that the video makes it really, really clear that the two people don't know each other. It's one thing to ask a friend/acquaintance - that's kinda just polite conversation. It's very much another when someone does it to a stranger, which is what the video is talking about. The presumption that anyone who looks Asian must be born in another country is, unfortunately, very common and for some reason, being Asian seems to attract this sort of thing far more often than it should.

Imagine if, on a reasonably frequent basis, complete strangers accosted you to question whether or not you are a "real" ((insert whatever country you live in)). It gets very tired, very quickly.

 

[Doug McCrae]

A few years ago I was working in Glasgow with a black man. I thought I could detect both Caribbean and London in his accent. I considered asking him where he was from but I decided not to because I thought it might make him unhappy, for exactly the reasons Hussar has given. And there was no need for me to know.

 

[S'mon]

Imagine if, on a reasonably frequent basis, complete strangers accosted you to question whether or not you are a "real" ((insert whatever country you live in)). It gets very tired, very quickly.

Until I moved to London I got this very frequently due to my Northern Irish accent - nobody asks if you're a "real Londoner" though!

 

[Riley37]

I've had the experience of someone pushing past my initial answer, to get at my ancestry, only a few times. *That* seems rude to me. The most recent time, the asker had friendly intent; she was an immigrant from Latin America to the USA, she thought I was another such immigrant (we were chatting in Spanish), and she was looking for common ground. Even so, if I answer with the city where I was raised and attended high school, then *that's my answer*, dammit, and the most polite response is to accept my answer as final. I'm *willing* to explain the mix of my ancestry, even to a stranger met on the road, but I take that as a more personal question than my hometown.

That's my experience as a white American. If I had Hussar's experience - people persistently questioning my children, in a way they don't do to white children - in a way which implies "you look like a foreigner, so what kind of foreigner are you?" - then I would get annoyed, and eventually angry.

If I ever meet Malia Obama, and she tells me that she's from Chicago, I'm going to accept that as her answer. I'm not going to push until I get to the Kenyan part of her ancestry. S'mon, can you see how it might be a touchy topic, not worth pushing past her initial answer?

 

[Bedrockgames]

I've had the experience of someone pushing past my initial answer, to get at my ancestry, only a few times. *That* seems rude to me. The most recent time, the asker had friendly intent; she was an immigrant from Latin America to the USA, she thought I was another such immigrant (we were chatting in Spanish), and she was looking for common ground. Even so, if I answer with the city where I was raised and attended high school, then *that's my answer*, dammit, and the most polite response is to accept my answer as final. I'm *willing* to explain the mix of my ancestry, even to a stranger met on the road, but I take that as a more personal question than my hometown.

That's my experience as a white American.

This seems like a regional thing to me. I spent five years in southern California as a kid and ethnic ancestry didn't seem to come up as much (and I sensed some amount of discomfort around the idea that someone would be anything other than a given race or and an American. But in the North East, at least where I live, people ask about ancestry all the time (and no one tells you they are white, they say they are Scottish, German, Italian, Irish, etc). The thing S'mon brought up would still be a line though. And when you do ask about ethnicity you don't ask where someone is from (because you are generally assuming they are third or even fourth generation). You just ask what they are. And again, across racial lines it would be a lot more touchy.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I'd also point out that the video makes it really, really clear that the two people don't know each other. It's one thing to ask a friend/acquaintance - that's kinda just polite conversation. It's very much another when someone does it to a stranger, which is what the video is talking about. The presumption that anyone who looks Asian must be born in another country is, unfortunately, very common and for some reason, being Asian seems to attract this sort of thing far more often than it should.

Imagine if, on a reasonably frequent basis, complete strangers accosted you to question whether or not you are a "real" ((insert whatever country you live in)). It gets very tired, very quickly.

That is another good point about the video. In the video I think, if I remember, someone accosts an Asian person who is getting on a bicycle and asks the question. So it is clearly different from people who have an existing friendship. It is sort of like asking someone their religion based soley on their appearance.

Hussar, you had mentioned your experience in Japan and Korea informing your thoughts on this. I am just curious what that experience was if you don't mind sharing.