D&D (2024) Do players really want balance?

[DarkCrisis]

I gotta ask, why are you folks having such a difficult time challenging the characters?

I'm running Shattered Obelisk right now, and I've seen some pretty skin of the teeth fights. Six Revenants, all immune to turn, 2 attacks per round at +7 dealing 6d6+4 damage per hit. How is that not beating the snot out of your 7th or 8th level party? Or, currently, one behir, which has, as of the end of the session, dropped two PC's down to single digit HP with it's breath weapon, and swallowed the barbarian. This is going to be one seriously rough fight.

I just don't get the whole "Oh, I cannot challenge the PC's, they're just too strong" thing. It utterly baffles me. Ramping up difficulty is just so easy.

I can only speak for myself, but I mainly run official published adventures when I complain about encounter balance.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I can only speak for myself, but I mainly run official published adventures when I complain about encounter balance.

I'll take your word for it. I only use official published adventures to mine for ideas and maps.

 

[FrogReaver]

I gotta ask, why are you folks having such a difficult time challenging the characters?

I'm running Shattered Obelisk right now, and I've seen some pretty skin of the teeth fights. Six Revenants, all immune to turn, 2 attacks per round at +7 dealing 6d6+4 damage per hit. How is that not beating the snot out of your 7th or 8th level party? Or, currently, one behir, which has, as of the end of the session, dropped two PC's down to single digit HP with it's breath weapon, and swallowed the barbarian. This is going to be one seriously rough fight.

I just don't get the whole "Oh, I cannot challenge the PC's, they're just too strong" thing. It utterly baffles me. Ramping up difficulty is just so easy.

@Xenolith234 gave one good answer, another is that players are perceptive and can easily spot when you are making encounters specifically against their PC's. They can read the encounter guidelines and see that you are making 10x deadly encounters just to challenge them (or whatever x, just a hyperbolic example). Some expect the DM to mostly abide by encounter guidelines as well. Etc.

So while, it's easy just to add more monsters or monsters with specific abilities, it's not so easy to make the players feel that doing so was fair or not targeting them specifically.

 

[Xenolith234]

@Xenolith234 gave one good answer, another is that players are perceptive and can easily spot when you are making encounters specifically against their PC's. They can read the encounter guidelines and see that you are making 10x deadly encounters just to challenge them (or whatever x, just a hyperbolic example). Some expect the DM to mostly abide by encounter guidelines as well. Etc.

So while, it's easy just to add more monsters or monsters with specific abilities, it's not so easy to make the players feel that doing so was fair or not targeting them specifically.

If a PC obtains resistance to cold damage and all my frost giants are now fire giants, I’m sure challenging them, but that’s just a jerk move, lol.

 

[DarkCrisis]

I'll take your word for it. I only use official published adventures to mine for ideas and maps.

To counter my point, I haven’t had this issue when running AD&D / Basic D&D official adventures. They are tuned just fine.

It seems to be a modern design issue.

 

[FrogReaver]

If a PC obtains resistance to cold damage and all my frost giants are now fire giants, I’m sure challenging them, but that’s just a jerk move, lol.

LOL. yes. Well usually, but maybe not always

 

[Xenolith234]

Is the core problem here that players don’t know just how much the game is weighted towards them? Are we doing such a convincing job of pretending they’re in danger that they believe we might actually kill their PCs in every combat? If so, then it would explain that introducing variant rules to challenge them more is perceived as being a mean DM.

 

[Micah Sweet]

@Xenolith234 gave one good answer, another is that players are perceptive and can easily spot when you are making encounters specifically against their PC's. They can read the encounter guidelines and see that you are making 10x deadly encounters just to challenge them (or whatever x, just a hyperbolic example). Some expect the DM to mostly abide by encounter guidelines as well. Etc.

So while, it's easy just to add more monsters or monsters with specific abilities, it's not so easy to make the players feel that doing so was fair or not targeting them specifically.

Yup. The guidelines really work against the DM looking to challenge their PCs just by being there and setting a "standard". Curious if and how that will change in 5.5's DMG.

 

[Oofta]

Yeah, much less granularity than the combat rules. There's "unbalance" right there.

Whether the rules cover something in the detail you want but I do not has nothing to do with "unbalance".

 

[Micah Sweet]

Is the core problem here that players don’t know just how much the game is weighted towards them? Are we doing such a convincing job of pretending they’re in danger that they believe we might actually kill their PCs in every combat? If so, then it would explain that introducing variant rules to challenge them more is perceived as being a mean DM.

I wish and hope that is the case. Information fixes that.