Do the spells of a slain spellcaster end the instant he is killed?

[Hypersmurf]

Well, I didn't say the spell ended, I just it said it stopped functioning. If a valid targets becomes invalid, the spell stops working.

So the Heat Metal would stop heating the armour of the two people who are now 35 feet apart?

As for the levitation, he gave up his save already, it's to late to change your mind after the fact.

Levitate doesn't have a save. It only affects a willing creature.

A willing creature who becomes unwilling is in exactly the same position as a living creature who becomes dead - they were a valid target, and now they aren't.

Does Levitate stop functioning?

-Hyp.

 

[Ottergame]

So the Heat Metal would stop heating the armour of the two people who are now 35 feet apart?



Levitate doesn't have a save. It only affects a willing creature.

A willing creature who becomes unwilling is in exactly the same position as a living creature who becomes dead - they were a valid target, and now they aren't.

Does Levitate stop functioning?

-Hyp.

In the case of heat metal, the spell hit them while they were still in the same area, so it should continue no matter how far apart they move. It's not an area effect spell, it's a spell that effects multipul people. It'd be no different than hitting someone with Doom only to have them run out of the spell range on their next action, it's still on them.

As for the levitate, I'd say eys it does stop effecting them.

 

[Dracuwulf]

How about in the case of Silence cast on a creature that dies?

 

[Hypersmurf]

In the case of heat metal, the spell hit them while they were still in the same area, so it should continue no matter how far apart they move. It's not an area effect spell, it's a spell that effects multipul people.

Mage Armor affects "Creature touched". If the subject dies, he's no longer a creature.

Heat Metal affects "Metal equipment of one creature/two levels, no two of which can be more than 30 feet apart". If the creatures move apart, it's no longer the "metal equipment of one creature/two levels, no two of which can be more than 30 feet apart"; it's the "metal equipment of one creature/two levels, two of which are more than 30 feet apart".

Why should Mage Armor stop functioning because a valid target became invalid, but Heat Metal continues functioning when a valid target becomes invalid?

If I wanted to cast Chill Metal on the same equipment, I can't. The creatures aren't within 30 feet. They're invalid targets. Why does Heat Metal keep working if Mage Armor stops?

-Hyp.

 

[Ottergame]

Mage Armor affects "Creature touched". If the subject dies, he's no longer a creature.

Heat Metal affects "Metal equipment of one creature/two levels, no two of which can be more than 30 feet apart". If the creatures move apart, it's no longer the "metal equipment of one creature/two levels, no two of which can be more than 30 feet apart"; it's the "metal equipment of one creature/two levels, two of which are more than 30 feet apart".

Why should Mage Armor stop functioning because a valid target became invalid, but Heat Metal continues functioning when a valid target becomes invalid?

If I wanted to cast Chill Metal on the same equipment, I can't. The creatures aren't within 30 feet. They're invalid targets. Why does Heat Metal keep working if Mage Armor stops?

-Hyp.

They aren't invalid targets for the spell already cast, they would only be invalid targets for another casting of it. Like I said with Doom, moving out of range doesn't stop it from working.

As for silence, since it works on objects AND creatures, I'd say the spell still continues.

 

[Hypersmurf]

They aren't invalid targets for the spell already cast, they would only be invalid targets for another casting of it.

Just like Mage Armor. The dead guy was a valid target when the spell was cast, but he's not a valid target for another casting.

Either targetting parameters persist beyond the initial instant of casting, or they don't.

-Hyp.

 

[Ottergame]

Just like Mage Armor. The dead guy was a valid target when the spell was cast, but he's not a valid target for another casting.

Either targetting parameters persist beyond the initial instant of casting, or they don't.

-Hyp.

I didn't say Mage Armor ceased, I said it stops affecting him. If he was brought back to life, the spell would continue as long as it's duration hadn't expired.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I didn't say Mage Armor ceased, I said it stops affecting him. If he was brought back to life, the spell would continue as long as it's duration hadn't expired.

Right - so why doesn't the same apply to Heat Metal (or to Doom)? Why doesn't the spell stop affecting the metal until the creatures it belongs to are within 30 feet again?

When those creatures step away from each other, they are in the same position as the dead guy - targets who were valid[/i], but who currently aren't, for the spells that are affecting them.

Another example - Shillelagh. The spell affects a "non-magical club or quarterstaff".

If I cast GMW on a club, making it +3, say, and then cast Shillelagh, what happens?

If I cast Shillelagh followed by GMW, what happens?

-Hyp.

 

[Ottergame]

Right - so why doesn't the same apply to Heat Metal (or to Doom)? Why doesn't the spell stop affecting the metal until the creatures it belongs to are within 30 feet again?

When those creatures step away from each other, they are in the same position as the dead guy - targets who were valid[/i], but who currently aren't, for the spells that are affecting them.

Another example - Shillelagh. The spell affects a "non-magical club or quarterstaff".

If I cast GMW on a club, making it +3, say, and then cast Shillelagh, what happens?

If I cast Shillelagh followed by GMW, what happens?

-Hyp.

To me, it just makes sense for Heat Metal to continue. The target area only should matter when the spell first goes off, not where the people move to later. It just strikes me as right.

As for the secodn example, since the club is magical now, the Shillelagh will fail. If Shillehlagh is cast first, it's effects will be surpressed by the magic weapon spell.

 

[dcollins]

Socratic method, thy name is Hypersmurf.