D&D 5E Do you allow Bladesingers to cast Mending, Shillelagh or Magic Stone as part of the attack action?

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
You could, but it would not make the spell useful.

Replacing an attack with true strike is almost always a losing proposition, because you are exchanging two attacks for one attack with advantage. Either way you're making two attack rolls, but with true strike you can only ever get one hit, while two attacks has the potential for two hits if both rolls connect.
I think the most likely scenario where it's useful is if there's some reason you predictably have disadvantage on the attack. True strike negates that so that instead of taking 2 attacks at disadvantage, you get one attack with a normal roll. If the AC of the target is relatively high, I'd probably take the 1 attack at normal odds rather than 2 at disadvantage.
 

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Mort

Legend
Supporter
I think the most likely scenario where it's useful is if there's some reason you predictably have disadvantage on the attack. True strike negates that so that instead of taking 2 attacks at disadvantage, you get one attack with a normal roll. If the AC of the target is relatively high, I'd probably take the 1 attack at normal odds rather than 2 at disadvantage.

Interesting, a possible fringe scenario.

But even here, there are just SO many ways to get advantage. For ex. If you're a bladesinger and you know you're going to get disadvantage against a high AC opponent?

More than likely you have a familiar, have the familiar provide the help action. You now get 1 attack normally and one at disadvantage - still better than just one attack with advantage.

But the bigger point is (IMO); even for a bladesinger, who can get slightly better use of the spell than any other wizard subclass, it's a waste of a cantrip slot!
 

Dausuul

Legend
I think the most likely scenario where it's useful is if there's some reason you predictably have disadvantage on the attack. True strike negates that so that instead of taking 2 attacks at disadvantage, you get one attack with a normal roll. If the AC of the target is relatively high, I'd probably take the 1 attack at normal odds rather than 2 at disadvantage.
Fair point -- while two regular attacks are always* better than one with advantage, it is possible for two attacks with disadvantage to be worse than one regular attack.

It doesn't happen often in 5E, though. Your base chance to hit has to be below 50% (i.e., chance with disadvantage is below 25%) for the one attack to outperform the two.

*Assuming both attacks equally powerful, no special rules like Sneak Attack in play, etc.
 

I've used True Strike (and Blade Ward) occasionally in BG3. Largely because it was impossible to get into position to do anything more useful without using a dash action and putting yourself in harms way. Of course, BG3 doesn't have the Dodge action, but that is also useless if you are not targeted by any attacks (e.g. because your character is in a different room up when the fight breaks out).
 
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ECMO3

Hero
Interesting, a possible fringe scenario.

But even here, there are just SO many ways to get advantage. For ex. If you're a bladesinger and you know you're going to get disadvantage against a high AC opponent?

More than likely you have a familiar, have the familiar provide the help action. You now get 1 attack normally and one at disadvantage - still better than just one attack with advantage.

But the bigger point is (IMO); even for a bladesinger, who can get slightly better use of the spell than any other wizard subclass, it's a waste of a cantrip slot!
The other use, and I would argue a little less fringe, is if you are a Rogue multiclass and want to get the sneak attack damage, which is canceled with disadvantage.

IME the most common bladesinger move when you have disadvantage is Toll The Dead or Create Bonfire, which doesn't make an attack roll. Then roll a regular attack with disadvantage, or simply Bladeward and attack. That is generally going to be more useful than truestrike I think.

I rarely use my familiar in combat, they die way too easily if doing help. It is a little bit better if you get an Owl, but they still die often and then you are using what is generally a weak familiar and have to give up what you can get with a Hawk, Raven or a Bat. I think using a familiar for advantage is itself a fringe use.
 
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Mort

Legend
Supporter
The other use, and I would argue a little less fringe, is if you are a Rogue multiclass and want to get the sneak attack damage, which is canceled with disadvantage.

If you're a rogue you get steady aim. Which has some conditions but is MUCH more useful than true strike. And if you only have 1 or 2 levels of rogue do don't get steady aim? Then you're REALLY wasting a cantrip on true strike, there are too many good cantrips.
IME the most common bladesinger move when you have disadvantage is Toll The Dead or Create Bonfire, which doesn't make an attack roll. Then roll a regular attack with disadvantage, or simply Bladeward and attack. That is generally going to be more useful than truesight I think.
Just about ANY tactic will be more useful than true strike, for a bladesinger. The cantrip wording is just too restrictive.

I rarely use my familiar in combat, they die way too easily if doing help. It is a little bit better if you get an Owl, but they still die often and then you are using what is generally a weak familiar and have to give up what you can get with a Hawk, Raven or a Bat. I think using a familiar for advantage is itself a fringe use.

Familiars have huge amounts of uses of which combat is a pretty small one. That said o I've gotten decent use a time or two and the familiar had survived (and even if not, I have enough gold to get him back pretty quick).
 

rmcoen

Adventurer
(complete side note, but False Life becomes a lot more interesting to cast when you can ... oh, upon further research, I just discovered my DM had houseruled Find Familiar to share spells like Find Steed. Well, anyway, your 1hp familiar has a lot more survivability when it's got 8 tempHP too!)
 

ECMO3

Hero
If you're a rogue you get steady aim.

Which only works if you don't move. Steady aim is great to cancel disadvantage when it works, but that is not always and not really even 50% of the time IME.

Familiars have huge amounts of uses of which combat is a pretty small one. That said o I've gotten decent use a time or two and the familiar had survived (and even if not, I have enough gold to get him back pretty quick).
Agreed and I have used familiars for help (not typically for helping the caster though, usually for someone doing more damage). If you do this regularly though they are going to die quickly.
 

ECMO3

Hero
(complete side note, but False Life becomes a lot more interesting to cast when you can ... oh, upon further research, I just discovered my DM had houseruled Find Familiar to share spells like Find Steed. Well, anyway, your 1hp familiar has a lot more survivability when it's got 8 tempHP too!)
False life does not work for this, but things like Twilight Sanctuary and that Paladin subclass ability do.

Also Aid and Sanctuary work on Familiars and Sanctuary is not broken by using the help action.
 


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