D&D 5E Do you DM?

[Stoutstien]

First, you require a certain DM playstyle - one where a DM changes up published modules. New DMs especially may not feel comfortable with that. AL DMs may not have the freedom for that. Low-prep-time DMs may find that completely against why they bought a module in the first place. Your proposal on how to fix it can work, but is not a universal solution. Your statement that "all cases of metagaming can be dealt with" is shown to be incorrect.

Second, you are fixing a symptom not the root cause, and putting the onus to do that on someone other than the one who is causing the problem.

By that logic no solution can work because some DM somewhere doesn't like is so it isn't considered. It is a valid way to address this issue without a lot of work. Arguably alot less work than scrutinizing every player's action.
New DM need good player support which I find lacking as a whole. Different issue.

The players behavior IS the symptom here. Unless they have a serious deviant personally problem they aren't doing it just to do it.
It's a valid option for each table to decide to remove them but the problem is still there just for someone else.

 

[Nagol]

By that logic no solution can work because some DM somewhere doesn't like is so it isn't considered. It is a valid way to address this issue without a lot of work. Arguably alot less work than scrutinizing every player's action.
New DM need good player support which I find lacking as a whole. Different issue.

The players behavior IS the symptom here. Unless they have a serious deviant personally problem they aren't doing it just to do it.
It's a valid option for each table to decide to remove them but the problem is still there just for someone else.

Well, there is only one way to guarantee the problem person is gone permanently, but it is generally illegal to murder people regardless of how annoying they get. The best generally approved approach is ostracism.

 

[billd91]

published campaigns are a flawed concept.

The existence of problematic players does not make the concept of published campaigns/APs/adventures flawed.

 

[Keravath]

I've DMed a lot over the years since I started with AD&D. Most recently, I've only played 5e and not yet DMed it mostly due to time constraints but out of all the D&D systems (and I have played or run at least a few games in all of them), I find I like 5e the best. It seems to come closest to the spirit of the game when I first started while incorporating and streamlining the improvements in mechanics over the decades.

 

[prabe]

The existence of problematic players does not make the concept of published campaigns/APs/adventures flawed.

This is correct. Their flaws manifest in the absence of players who know the adventure before playing it.

 

[Stoutstien]

The existence of problematic players does not make the concept of published campaigns/APs/adventures flawed.

By itself no but that's a new topic. If I feel better later I may start a thread on why I find them flawed.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I don't think a TRPG table can work if there isn't trust between the players and the GM. Trust can be difficult to manage, both to lift and to carry; and it needs to be bidrectional; and holy ack that's a mangled metaphor.

...like some sort of rock, but with two heads and no handles.

 

[prabe]

...like some sort of rock, but with two heads and no handles.

I certainly lost the handle on the metaphor, if I ever had one.

 

[FrozenNorth]

[Published adventures are a flawed concept]

Aside from any possibility of player knowledge being or becoming a problem, a thousand times "Amen!" to this.

I believed this once. Full time work and three kids have made a fool out of me.

 

[prabe]

I believed this once. Full time work and three kids have made a fool out of me.

To be clear, my problem is much more with published adventure paths, not published adventures. While I have never been able to make sense of any published adventure in any way (reading, running, playing), it's only when you start stringing them together into mandatory order (a to b to c to d, etc.) that they become actively unpleasant (for me). That said, I do not believe that an imperfect game is not worth playing, if the other (typically social) rewards are adequate.