Do you Enjoy running high level games?

[Bryan898]

I believe he's referring to ending the game at this time as the point they are currently at, 13th level.

 

[A'koss]

I've run a couple of 3e games into epic levels before but for me the biggest problem isn't the running the game, but the style of game it turns into.

Everyone in our group loves the idea of epic, cinematic HL play, but D&D does an poor job of it IMO. Low and mid-level play models the sword & sorcery genre competantly enough (or can be made to at least), but what does HL D&D model? Nothing in the medieval fantasy genre that I can think of... The D&Disms of HL play create this quasi-supers style of game which, to me, has no place in a cinematic sword & sorcery campaign.

Verisimilitude in a game world is very important to me and it breaks down in a nasty way with the story-breaking capabilities of characters/critters of this level.

Just my 2 bits...

 

[S'mon]

A while back (like a couple of years ago) Henry posted some guidelines for quick NPCs. Henry, if you happen to spot this thread, would you re-post those?

My current version of Henry's Quick NPC System is linked in my sig (and has been approved by Henry). The base idea is if you know what stats and skills are Good (for stats that's +2 bonus, for skills it's level+3 ranks) you can do most NPCs very quickly. It's not intended for creating the 20th level Wizard BBEG though; for that you can either:

1. Assume he has all the usual spells; Fireball, Mord's Disjunction etc, & wing it using the 3.0 DMG NPC stats.
2. Run Jamis Buck's NPC generator and just use the spell list (unless the whole NPC looks good), tweaking it for optimisation/plausibility, use Quick NPC for the rest. Use 3.0 DMG NPC for gear, adding/deleting items to individualise him. This can easily take 20 minutes.
3. Painstakingly design him from the ground up using PC rules & buy gear from the book. This will take ca 2 hours, for one NPC.

 

[S'mon]

Everyone in our group loves the idea of epic, cinematic HL play, but D&D does an poor job of it IMO. Low and mid-level play models the sword & sorcery genre competantly enough (or can be made to at least), but what does HL D&D model? Nothing in the medieval fantasy genre that I can think of... The D&Disms of HL play create this quasi-supers style of game which, to me, has no place in a cinematic sword & sorcery campaign.

Running a solo game for a non-spellcasting high level PC with limited spellcaster support from NPCs and it can be very cool, very cinematic & swords & sorcery-esque. Makes for a Conan, Beowulf or Achilles type experience. It's high level PC spellcasting in 3e is the problem, I think.

 

[Pinotage]

Yep, medium levels are the most fun. PCs are resourceful, but not superpowerful yet.

Bye
Thanee

Completely agree. I tried running an epic game, but didn't like it at all. I've run several games around 10th level, up to possibly 12-13, and they work nicely. Not overly powerful, can still create a 10 round fight, and everybody has fun.

Pinotage

 

[Psion]

Low and mid-level play models the sword & sorcery genre competantly enough (or can be made to at least), but what does HL D&D model? Nothing in the medieval fantasy genre that I can think of...

I don't think D&D of any particular type is required to model any particular fantasy novel any more than any fantasy novel is required to model any other. But as far as that goes, I find that competantly run high (as in, in the teens) level D&D comes close to the feel of some Dying Earth stories, the Belgariad, and Brust's Dragaera books.

 

[DaveMage]

My current version of Henry's Quick NPC System is linked in my sig (and has been approved by Henry).

Thanks, S'mon!

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I like high levels, as much as I like lower levels. They're all part of the game, IMO.

Sure, they're more challenging for the DM, but DM's shouldn't shy away from challenges.

Sure, it is not for everyone. A DM of mine, for example, is completely unable to run games of higher level and/or power. He just cannot deal with it and resorts to metagaming and railroading.

 

[The_Gunslinger658]

Hi-

I'm in the same boat as twofalls, high level PC's equal time consuming prep time. As stated else where, I to refuse to use cookie cutter NPC's, I prefer to give my Devil's or Demons level's of Rogue or fighter. I prefer to have a Rogue/ Crinti Shadow Marauder as an NPC baddie then just a Rogue.

At times I almost want to go back to playing 1E but then I look at how creative one can be with this current rules set and that right there keeps me going with 3.5 D&D. So you gotta ask yourself, do you wanna go back to the days of I hit, you hit or
"I attempt a bulls Rush to knock back the Archer 5 feet and thus off the infinite staircase into the void, make a dex DC save to cling to the stairs edge or fall for all eternity." Now thats dramatics!

So ya, as a DM you gotta suck it up and drive on, in the end, I think it is well worth the effort.

Scott

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I'm not a fan of the higher levels. By that time, the characters have pretty much achieved their goals and are beginning to wind down their career. They've got money, power, status, have saved the world a couple of times, and are pretty darn unstoppable. Once things get past 15th level, I start to look forward to the next campaign, to starting fresh.

There's so much wondrous variety in the game that I can't see running the same campaign for much longer than that.