Do you find the Mystic Theurge overpowered?

[S'mon]

Am I the only one who was glad that the 2E multiclass cleric/wizard was not viable anymore? The only one who did not think that there should be a way to have a caster multiclass without giving up something significant?

IMHO the cleric spell list, especially with domains, is so close to the arcane spell list that a cleric with the right domains could already cast a great deal of arcane spells, if not as effectively or often. And if you really, really want to cast fireball, the magic domain offers it through magic items.

I agree with you 100%

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Also, IIRC you cannot take Epic Wizard levels until you have 20 wizard levels.

You recall incorrectly; Access to 9th Level spells does the trick, and this class can (and thus will) do it. That automatically makes that class potentially more powerful than similar concept classes (merging Divine and Arcane) because the others prevent it.

Am I the only one who was glad that the 2E multiclass cleric/wizard was not viable anymore? The only one who did not think that there should be a way to have a caster multiclass without giving up something significant?

Nope.

And yet the PHB, DMG, and MM limit themselves to 20 levels ISN'T a good reason to limit this discussion to a similar level? At least until we see what WotC has planned for Epic level progression for this PrC. What if the ELH had never come out? Would you still consider the pursuit of post-20 bliss and balance to be relevant to the discussion of a preview of a PrC from the DMG?

There have been plenty of reasons given for this class to be over-powered prior to 21st Level. Smart Spell Selection alone makes this class the most potent class available; Anyone that can't make a C5/W5/MysT10 an absolute walking min-nuke has simply made poor Spell and Feat selections. A C3/W7/MysT10 is even worse, all things considered. Between the availability of spells, taking Feats, and wealth expenditure/item aquisition, anyone not making an absolute power house out of such a character should have "Forest Gump" emblazed on his forhead.

 

[green slime]

You are talking about a 20th level character.

20th level characters are all going to be powerhouses, unless you take subotimal routes to get there.

I still do not believe that it is the "most" potent class combination available.

It is definitely a potent class combination. Of that there is no doubt. But so is any 20th level Wizard, or 20th level Cleric. For all out powergaming, I'd rather play a single classed cleric. But I do adore versatility.

 

[Technik4]

Not to stoop to name calling but, "Forest Gump". Stat up a walking min-nuke of a wiz5/clr5/myt10 for me. Youre a 15th level cleric and a 15th level wizard. Do you wear armor? Can you calculate those hp for me? Whats your best spell and how many times per day can you cast it? What do your DCs look like? What makes you better than a wiz15/acm5 who has 9th level spells, and quite a few of them?

Put your money where your mouth is, Im calling you out Bendris. Use any spells, feats, and magic items found in the core books and prove me wrong, or stand contested.

Post your entry to this thread:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=824297#post824297

Technik

 

[Noir]

yes, it's a bit overpowered but there are PrC that are much better.

the most positive thing with this PrC, if you ask me, is the fact that you now will be able to play a decent necromancer for the first time in DnD3E history, yay!

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Stat up a walking min-nuke of a wiz5/clr5/myt10 for me.

I don't waste my time in theoretical min/max. I do know a crap class when I see it. And this class is crap. And crap is what crap does.

This class isn't powerful because of the numbers; This class is powerful due to resources. I'm not surprised so many people want to play one. Not surprised one bit.

 

[drnuncheon]

You recall incorrectly; Access to 9th Level spells does the trick, and this class can (and thus will) do it. That automatically makes that class potentially more powerful than similar concept classes (merging Divine and Arcane) because the others prevent it.

Absolutely wrong. You cannot take epic levels in any class until you have taken 20 levels in it (or maximum levels if it is a 10+level PrC and you are level 20+).

You may be thinking of the Epic Spellcasting feat, which only requires the ability to cast 9th level spells (and a 21st level character, since it's Epic), but if you go back and read what was said, that's not what's under discussion at all.

J

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Absolutely wrong. You cannot take epic levels in any class until you have taken 20 levels in it (or maximum levels if it is a 10+level PrC and you are level 20+).

You may be thinking of the Epic Spellcasting feat, which only requires the ability to cast 9th level spells (and a 21st level character, since it's Epic), but if you go back and read what was said, that's not what's under discussion at all.

Actually, Epic Levels in Wizard isn't being discussed, but it was brought into the subject. I'm redirecting the topic back to the issue of the problem (the Feat) from the non-problem (Epic Class Levels). At the same time, I can see how some folks would rather talk about the non-problem, because then there isn't a problem.

 

[Numion]

The jury is still out on this one. If you look at the numbers, it sure as hell seems to give more than a levels worth of stuff per level. Unfortunately determining balance isn't that simple. It actually takes playtesting and some effort other than setting up a poll at ENWorld. Sorry.

 

[kingpaul]

Well, our regular DM wanted to take a break, so one of the other players stepped up to run a mini-adventure. He allowed us to be 8th level characters. We had a fighter, fighter/sorcerer, rogue, bard/rogue/thief acrobat/virtuoso, cleric and my character, wizard 3/cleric of Mystra 3/mystic theurge 2. I will admit, having lots of smaller spells was nice. However, I only had a 1 3rd level spell for wizard and cleric, and no access to 4th level spells. My character was definately a support character. Turning ability was weak and lack of more higher level spells was definatley a damper in my book. However, I think that this kind of character would make a great artificer, as they can access almost all of hte spells at higher levels.