D&D 5E Do you know a creatures location if they are in heavy concealment but not actively hiding and other location questions

[Hriston]

Either way, it wouldn't be following the official rules.

I don't understand. The ability to hide as a bonus action is an official rule for many creatures. Your NPC mages could be among them since they are entirely your creation.

 

[Prakriti]

I don't understand. The ability to hide as a bonus action is an official rule for many creatures. Your NPC mages could be among them since they are entirely your creation.

In my games, invisible creatures are automatically hidden. That goes for PCs and NPCs alike. It's what makes the most sense to me and my players, and it's fun.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

So I care what you tbink, not what you imagine others could possibly think.

Except you appear not to care what I think, because I told you what I think.

I'll reiterate it here: I think you are wrong that the noises you can make that prevent hiding must be as loud as shouting.

That's how this whole thing started is by me telling you what I think, and then you appearing to ascribe other thoughts to me in your reply.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

If a bad guy falls into the lava, I declare him dead. If a player falls into the lava, I roll for damage and check if it actually kills them. Is that unfair? I don't think it is.

If you don't apply the rules to an NPC, then whatever you arbitrarily decide happens to them, it should still fall into the realm of what could have happened if you had applied the rules. If a bad guy falls onto lava and instantly bursts into flames, but a PC falls onto lava and takes 10d6 fire damage, then that's one thing.

If you have an NPC warrior drop a smoke bomb in order to escape foes undetected, then that's not cool. That's not a thing that could ever happen within the realm of possibility covered by the ruleset that describes all observable reality. Unless someone has special training to let them hide quickly, it's entirely impossible to both use an item and immediately hide; they would have been spotted before they had a chance. If they succeed anyway, in spite of it being impossible under the rules, then that's not cool. Saying that they accomplished this task because the rules don't apply to them is an extremely radical approach to DMing.

To put it more plainly, a bear with a speed of 40 can run 80 feet in six seconds. It shouldn't be able to run 120 feet just because you stopped looking at it.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

Ugh, that is just unpleasant.

Yes, it is. I really dislike the ignore feature of this forum. I get providing users the option not to see my posts if they don't want to read them and would rather not have to remember me by name or avatar and manually skip my posts. What I don't get is what is perceived to be gained by removing those users' posts from my sight when I am still open-minded enough to hear and even consider opinions not directly in line with my own, or how whatever that gain is isn't outweighed by the net effect on the community by having any guests or new users yet to ignore or be ignored by anyone see not only the insular and often community-toxic opinions of those people close-minded enough to liberally apply the ignore function, but also see those opinions as having no one provide disagreement or differing opinion, giving the illusory perception of those opinions being uncontested or more widely accepted.

 

[Imaculata]

If you have an NPC warrior drop a smoke bomb in order to escape foes undetected, then that's not cool.

I'll be sure to bring that news gently to Batman. He's not going to like hearing it though.

That's not a thing that could ever happen within the realm of possibility covered by the ruleset that describes all observable reality.

Since when do the rules describe all observable reality? What the DM says overrules anything that the rules say. If I say that the ninja vanishes in a puff of smoke, then that is what happens. If you are using the rules to tell a DM what he cannot do, then I don't think you are using the rules for their intended purpose.

Unless someone has special training to let them hide quickly, it's entirely impossible to both use an item and immediately hide; they would have been spotted before they had a chance.

I'm the DM. I'm the storyteller. I'll be the judge of that.

To put it more plainly, a bear with a speed of 40 can run 80 feet in six seconds. It shouldn't be able to run 120 feet just because you stopped looking at it.

This guy would disagree with you.



If it is narratively more exciting to have the bear show up somewhere unexpected, then that bear can do anything that I want it to do, for the purpose of the story. As soon as the players lose sight of it, it could suddenly show up anywhere, despite it's movement speed. Yes, even in the car they just exited.

 

[Prakriti]

If you don't apply the rules to an NPC, then whatever you arbitrarily decide happens to them, it should still fall into the realm of what could have happened if you had applied the rules. If a bad guy falls onto lava and instantly bursts into flames, but a PC falls onto lava and takes 10d6 fire damage, then that's one thing.

I dunno, it's hard to feel strongly on the issue when you consider the rules for dropping to 0 hit points:

"Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws. Mighty villains and special nonplayer character are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters" (PHB, p. 198).
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In other words, NPCs and PCs follow different rules, and all characters have different degrees of survivability depending on their narrative importance. This is baked right into the core rules.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I dunno, it's hard to feel strongly on the issue when you consider the rules for dropping to 0 hit points:

"Most DMs have a monster die the instant it drops to 0 hit points, rather than having it fall unconscious and make death saving throws. Mighty villains and special nonplayer character are common exceptions; the DM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters" (PHB, p. 198).​

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Dying is a possibility for anyone who drops to zero. For PCs, you pretty much always want to roll it out in order to see what happens. For NPCs, you usually don't care what happens, so many DMs just say that they fail and don't bother rolling death saves.

It's not so much that they follow different rules, as they follow a subset of the rules. It's not like this simplification lets them do anything that they couldn't have done, if you'd applied the full rules.

 

[Hriston]

In my games, invisible creatures are automatically hidden. That goes for PCs and NPCs alike. It's what makes the most sense to me and my players, and it's fun.

Okay, so you've altered the Invisible condition to include automatically hidden and re-hidden when revealed, is that correct? Do you also extend auto-hiding to creatures who become unseen by non-magical means?

 

[Imaculata]

It's not so much that they follow different rules, as they follow a subset of the rules. It's not like this simplification lets them do anything that they couldn't have done, if you'd applied the full rules.

But the point is that npc's can do anything that the DM wants them to do, for the purpose of the story. The DM is not obligated to strictly confine the actions of his npc's to the rules at all times.

Now, if that is the style of playing that you feel comfortable with, have at it. But it is by no means a requirement when playing D&D.