D&D 5E Do you know a creatures location if they are in heavy concealment but not actively hiding and other location questions

[The Crimson Binome]

I'll be sure to bring that news gently to Batman. He's not going to like hearing it though.

I'm fairly certain that Batman can hide as a bonus action.

What the DM says overrules anything that the rules say. If I say that the ninja vanishes in a puff of smoke, then that is what happens. If you are using the rules to tell a DM what he cannot do, then I don't think you are using the rules for their intended purpose.

Games are defined by their rules. If the DM applies different rules, then the new rules define the game. This is explicitly a power of the DM.

I'm the DM. I'm the storyteller. I'll be the judge of that.

The DM is not the storyteller. The DM is the narrator, the adjudicator, the referee, and the player of all NPCs. The story is just something that kind of happens as a side effect of playing.

If it is narratively more exciting to have the bear show up somewhere unexpected, then that bear can do anything that I want it to do, for the purpose of the story. As soon as the players lose sight of it, it could suddenly show up anywhere, despite it's movement speed. Yes, even in the car they just exited.

You can do anything you want at your own table, and the only ones you have to answer to are your players. Whatever bizarre inconsistencies you introduce by doing so are not a reflection of the rule system in question.

 

[Imaculata]

The DM is not the storyteller. The DM is the narrator, the adjudicator, the referee, and the player of all NPCs. The story is just something that kind of happens as a side effect of playing.

I've heard this before, and I could not disagree with it more. The story is not just a side effect. It sure isn't in my games.

Just because the players guide the story (which differs per group), does not mean that the DM is not telling a story of his own. When I write a quest, the backstory of an npc, or the history of my fictional world, I am telling a story.

When I narrate what happens as a result of an action, I am also telling a story. Storytelling does not equal a linear predefined plot. There are many kinds of storytelling, and being a DM is one of them.

The idea that a story just kinda happens as a side effect is bizarre to me. But hey, far be it for me to tell you how you should run your game. But many DM's put a lot more planning into their plot. It doesn't just happen as a side effect. Almost all of my sessions end in exciting cliff hangers... and that's not mere happenstance. I'm telling a story, by weaving together both the actions of the players, the things I wrote myself, and what ever happens to pop into my mind as I'm telling it.

You can do anything you want at your own table, and the only ones you have to answer to are your players. Whatever bizarre inconsistencies you introduce by doing so are not a reflection of the rule system in question.

The DMG is very clear about it that the freedom of the DM is what the rules are all about. They serve the story, not the other way around.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

...many DM's put a lot more planning into their plot. It doesn't just happen as a side effect.

Even some of us that put next to no planning into a plot are still, primarily and not as a side effect, telling a story when we DM.

People just get confused that we are telling a story with our players, rather than telling a story to our players, and think it means the story is only the end result and not the entire process of play.

 

[Prakriti]

Okay, so you've altered the Invisible condition to include automatically hidden and re-hidden when revealed, is that correct?

No, there are too many variables to codify the rules in such a way. Every situation is different. A petrified human in dense fog, for example, is automatically hidden, even though petrified creatures cannot take the Hide action. A petrified troglodyte, however, is not hidden, because it stinks to high heaven. An invisible mage in a cellar is automatically hidden. An invisible mage in deep snow is not.

 

[Imaculata]

No, there are too many variables to codify the rules in such a way. Every situation is different. A petrified human in dense fog, for example, is automatically hidden, even though petrified creatures cannot take the Hide action. A petrified troglodyte, however, is not hidden, because it stinks to high heaven. An invisible mage in a cellar is automatically hidden. An invisible mage in deep snow is not.

I agree.

Depending on the circumstances, I could think of plenty of situations in which a DM might rule that a creature is automatically hidden.

 

[Hriston]

No, there are too many variables to codify the rules in such a way. Every situation is different. A petrified human in dense fog, for example, is automatically hidden, even though petrified creatures cannot take the Hide action.

Well, I wouldn't ask an inanimate object to take the Hide action to become hidden either. I would just set a DC to find it with a Perception check. You seem to be saying that in your game there would be no chance of finding a petrified human save by stumbling over it, if I'm understanding correctly, or would you also set some sort of DC?

A petrified troglodyte, however, is not hidden, because it stinks to high heaven.

I guess it depends how long it has been petrified. You'd think the stench would wear off after a while. If it's immediately noticeable by smell, however, then yes, I agree that there's no reason to check anyone's Perception.

An invisible mage in a cellar is automatically hidden. An invisible mage in deep snow is not.

By automatically hidden you mean hidden without taking an action and without any chance of detection, yes? And some circumstances allow for automatic hiding and some require you to take an action to do so, is that correct? Of course there are many situations where hiding is impossible. I'm just trying to understand what it is about being an invisible Mage in a cellar that conceals your position no matter what other action you are taking.

My thoughts on the subject are that some of the criticisms of the hiding rules seem to depend on comparing the Hide action unfavorably with doing nothing, the thought process going something like, if an invisible creature is just standing still and not making any noise, then what need is there to take the Hide action. Whereas, in my view, the Hide action is often a place-holder that means you are doing just that, because any other action you could take would result in making a noise that reveals your location.