Do You Like Advanced Monsters and Prestige Class Examples in your Books?

[Shade]

I don't mind the advanced monsters, although I can live without 'em. At best, I like the fact that they provide a way to link advanced monsters to spells, class abilities, etc., such as "X can summon a dread wraith" rather than simply stating "X can summon a wraith advanced to 16 HD".

Sample NPCs, however, I strongly wish would go away. The recent books that include these seem so much more sparse in actual content due to the wasted space, IMHO.

 

[Psion]

Psion: How, exactly, do the PrC NPCs make the PrCs "more useful"? They really do seem kinda worthless to me. Do you mean that they provide easily-incorporated NPCs that "showcase" the PrC in a campaign (something I don't find too useful personally, but others might; I see PrCs more as build tools than interesting flavor elements) or that they're examples that make it easier for players and DMs to understand how the PrC ability rules work?

They make PrCs more useful because they provide you with a completed, ready to play implementation of the PrC, which is a boon to a DM who is busy with other details of a campaign but likes the concept of a given prestige class.

There exists something of a dichotomy of mechanical books out there: monster books and character building books. Monster books provide the GM with ready to play stats. You can extend them and add to them, but at least you have something you can play with as a default.

Prestige classes and other character options are targeted more towards players. They are a valuable tool in the GMs toolbox because he can define NPCs as members of certain classes, which inherently says something about them, and provide options for PCs, which are really the focus of the game and it is good for PCs to reflect their world. But if the GM needs to bring a member of a certain class directly into play, he has to go through all the same steps a player does.

So, as a default, monsters have a playable form you can use immediately in a game, and that you can extend. But PrCs don't match this level of utility. They require work for the GM to implement beyond a descriptive sense. Sample characters meet this need.

 

[Mystery Man]

Psion: How, exactly, do the PrC NPCs make the PrCs "more useful"? They really do seem kinda worthless to me. Do you mean that they provide easily-incorporated NPCs that "showcase" the PrC in a campaign (something I don't find too useful personally, but others might; I see PrCs more as build tools than interesting flavor elements) or that they're examples that make it easier for players and DMs to understand how the PrC ability rules work?

I'm not Psion but I do play one on TV. The NPC examples are not pointless. To say otherwise is to ignore a gift horse in the mouth IMHO. Quite frankly I'm perplexed as to what the point would be to even complain.

For me, they save time. My time is valuable I have a wife, two kids and a career that take priority over everything. Anything that I can use to save time yet still get something effective is worth its letter count in gold.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I like the advanced monsters, but given time I'd rather make up my own. I actually LIKE adding class levels and rolling stats for really nasty foes. It's a fun exercise.

 

[Sejs]

I like advanced monster examples, such as the Mind Flayer Sorcerer, the Abyssal Basilisk, etc, etc. PrC examples, not so much. Advanced monster examples tend to give a new perspective on how a creature could be tuned that I may not have thought of, but PrC examples tend to be pretty much what I'd expect.

The difference being that an advanced monster uses the monster for the base, whereas a PrC example uses the PrC for the advancement and just... normal stuff for the base.

 

[EricNoah]

I like both the advanced monster stats and the sample NPC stats. They go a long way to making the material come more alive to me -- something that blends pieces of the rules together so I can see what they'd be like before I do the work myself.

 

[HeathcliffeSlocumb]

I like intelligent monsters with classes. I like any monster with a template (lycanthrope, fiendish, etc). I don't like monsters with prestige classes.

 

[johnnype]

I like both advanced monsters and fully stated NPC/Prestige Class write-ups for the same reasons Psion and others have stated: they save time. It's interesting to see how the designers create characters. In addition it helps to illustrate how some of the PrC abilities work. Most of the time this is not an issue but ocasionally it's important to see them in conjunction with other class/race/template abilities. One of my favorite examples is the Hill Giant/Dire Wereboar example in the MM. Try creating that on your own. Sure it's possible but it's also time consuming.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I like intelligent monsters with classes. I like any monster with a template (lycanthrope, fiendish, etc). I don't like monsters with prestige classes.

What's really fun is NON-intelligent monsters with classes. Want a tougher giant scorpion? Say it has been through many fights and loses its temper when exposed to pain - i.e., add barbarian levels.

Perhaps the Stirges in the Dark Woods are particularly nasty and have evolved to strike with paticular accuracy and stealth. Add a level of Rogue.

Is the Roper nasty enough? Try it with levels of Fighter.

Black puddings having trouble putting up a good fight? Give it a few levels of Monk.


There's no reason you have to tell the PCs why the monsters are harder than usual, and once you think of the classes as simple packages of useful skills and abilities you lose your inhabitions against slapping them on monsters for which the class would normally make no sense.

 

[the Jester]

Seems like a majority feels as I do on these two subjects- advanced monsters = cool, prc examples = lame (imho only because they reprint all the prc abilities a page later- c'mon now!).

What's really fun is NON-intelligent monsters with classes.

Not so long ago, I let one of the pcs in my halfling campaign pour some xp into his riding dog to give it a level of fighter.