Do you like the uber-mensch?

[Umbran]

I don't care so much how much power and/or ability the character does or does not have. What matters is who they are, how they act, and how well the story is written or presented. If the plot is good, and the characters interesting, the relative power levels won't stop it from being a good story.

 

[Gronin]

And even better than Bond... Derek Flint

Now there are some great (if you like dated, tongue planted firmly in the cheek) movies. I wonder if they have been released on DVD? Gotta go look.

 

[Gronin]

I don't mind the uber-mensch kinda characters if they are done well. For example, I have a real fondness for David Gemmell's character Druss the Axeman or the even more uber-mesnchy (man you start mixing languages and things just go right out the window) Waylander.

 

[Frostmarrow]

And even better than Bond... Derek Flint

Was Derek Flint the agent that could feign death suspended animation style that was awoken by a timed pin in his wrist watch?

If so, was it an homage to Flint that Bond pulled the same stunt in the latest Bond-flick; Die another day?

 

[sniffles]

Now there are some great (if you like dated, tongue planted firmly in the cheek) movies. I wonder if they have been released on DVD? Gotta go look.

Yes, they're available. We have both. My fiancee is a big Flint fan.
@Frostmarrow - Flint was created as a reaction to Bond, so it would be pretty funny if Bond's device was an homage to Flint. Actually, it was probably because the writers of Bond are too young to have even seen Our Man Flint and thought they were coming up with something original.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

1. Not as good as the show indicated
2. They tended to run away a lot
3. Inferior technology. Old Russian tanks < New US Tanks.
4. No air force of significance since the very beginning of the first war.
5. Baathist cronies in important military positions instead of qualified folks.
5. Their air defense strategy was as follows: Each flak battery is assigned a section of the sky. Fire at random at that area and hope you hit something. (They may have initially had a better one, I don't recall, but evnetually, it was that one).

So? He's no average member of the Republican Guard. He's a named character and has more Smart levels

I mean, really, I'm amazed that you can complain about this. I haven't felt he can overshadow the other "party" members. He's more competent than most of them, but not all of them, and what do you expect from someone who is smart and is trained to kill?

 

[Merlion]

This is an interesting question to me, because many of my own writtings include a character who could be considered a "super man" of sorts.


I think characters of that kind can be useful storytelling tools, especially in fantasy.

Gandalf is a good example. He is more powerful than the other characters but 1) he still isnt powerful enough to simply solve all the problems (he is still subject to the lure of the Ring, and its stated that he isnt strong enough to defeat Sauron, unless Gandalf took the ring himself) and 2) more importantly even if he could, he is forbidden to do so, partially to preserve the free will of the "mortal" or earthly races, and partly because they need to learn to solve their own problems, and choose to stand against evil on their own.


Thats much how my character is. In many of my stories, there is a sort of balance of power...once a being gets to a certain level on either side (good or evil, service to self or service to others) there are rules that must be obeyed. If one side acts, the other side acts in kind.

And so Emrys, my super-mage, often acts only as a helper and guide to more "ordinary" people, because humans and the other "young" races where made with free will for a reason, and agencies with greater knowledge and power arent permitted to take that away. Also it is intended for them to use that freedom to choose to counter evil, not be forced into it.



I wouldnt really consider a character like Carter on SG1 to fall into this catagory. She's very intelligent, and knowledgeable in certain fields, but she doesnt know everything about everything, and she doesnt have any sort of direct power...she cant just make things happen, and is still limited by physical laws.

Also I think that sort of thing is pretty common in TV shows...you only have an hour usualy to resolve the issues of the episode, so often theres one or two characters who always come through with those answers.


I think it just depends really.

 

[Tyler Do'Urden]

Well, I think that we can divide these "Ubermensch" up into categories:

Solo-Ubermensch: The hero works by himself, with little support (except, perhaps, "back at the base"). The typical solo-superhero approach. James Bond. Superman. Batman. Spiderman.

Ubermensch w/ Support: The hero does most of the work, and is the focus of the plot, but still needs his friends to get the job done. Neo. Luke Skywalker. Paul Atreides. Rand al'Thor.

Ubermensch w/ Plot Limitations: The hero is vastly powerful, but is not the "main focus" of the story, or has another limitation. Gandalf. Aragorn. Professor X. Yoda.

Non-Ubermensch: The character has extremely powerful abilities in one area, with conditional limitations and very significant weaknesses, and is merely another member of the team. Data. River. Wolverine.

I think that it's the second type that irritates people the most, because they expect them to be more like the third or fourth type- more limited, and less focused. They don't want to see the other characters as merely spear-carriers (though I'd certainly say that Morpheus, Han Solo, Alia and Nynaeve are much more than spear-carriers!) The first isn't as irritating because all the other allied "untermensch" are offstage- and the third and fourth categories show the weaknesses that those in the first two lack. (Though some might think that the difference between categories three and four are superfluous, I disagree. Category three ubermensch are those who still seem to be above humanity in many ways- what flaws they have are relatively small. Category four are often seriously lacking in some areas, and typically only have one or two exceptional abilities. Data is superintelligent and super-strong, but the driving motivation of his character is that he wishes he was human- and can't truly understand humanity. Wolverine is tormented and unpredictable, and aside from being a tremendous fighter, doesn't seem to have many other exceptional abilities- far from a perfect superhero, anyway, and not really a solo operative. River is a psychic and a prodigious combatant who seems like a fragile, crazy little girl the rest of the time. None of them are really "ubermensch" in my book.)