D&D (2024) Do you see Fighter players at your own table?

[Yaarel]

Doing a dirty estimate from disparate statistics:

The strictly nonmagical nonmulticlass Fighter is somewhere around 6.5% of all level 8 characters.

 

[Emberashh]

But is a DM who says "um, I'm not sure this thing you want to do would be balanced so I'm going to not allow it" bad?

Yes, because the game isn't so complicated that one needs to ponder such a question, nor so serious that a posthumous correction (either in what happened or what will happen in the future) is an unruly burden.

And thats especially true when whats being asked for is already something a Caster could do, and even more absurdly true when the player has pitched a reasonable means of achieving it.

Nobody reasonable is going to let a Martial replicate Wish (Though Id love to hear the good faith pitch to try and justify that), but theres literally a number of Spells that are basically just straight up things Martials don't need a pitch to just be able to do; to the point that they arguably shouldn't even be spells at all.

Is one of us a bad DM for not allowing something the other two allow?

Yes, particularly in context of what I said above.

And more than that, such a dynamic really has to come down to why that DM isn't running a game more suited to their preferences.

And if the group collectively agrees on the ban as a swap for playing 5e or whatever, then there isn't an issue and can't be cited as a system problem.

Ive said this before, but it isn't the systems fault if you don't like it, and its not an excuse to run a poorer version of itself.

 

[Incenjucar]

Could you elaborate. I want to be clear, I do not doubt, but I really-truly do not understand your statement.

You know how people get sleepy when bored? It happens to me extremely easily and extremely powerfully.

I have fallen asleep in meetings, I spend most family events asleep in a chair, I quit my first job - data entry - for a worse job that pays less because I couldn't stay awake. All this made itself evident in my youth, despite the availability of energy drinks.

On the positive side, I can run a lot of complex information in my head pretty easily. I'm sure it's part of why running an entire 30 level 4E campaign was so pleasant and fluid for me, and why I was able to keep the combats fast and furious despite the HP bloat and full party of PCs.

But if you stick me with the 5E fighter I am going to bring a pillow.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

5e was designed to not have mechanics that interfere with the Houserules and homebrew of 10+ year D&D veterans to pull them back in after they ran from 4e. It lacks mechanics because you were supposed to already have them.

But what happens if you form a new group. Or you attract new players and DMs.

WOTC: New players? New Groups? Oh crap. Is 5e a success and needs actual suggestions, guides, guidelines, and variants?

I have friends that have played since before I was born and not 1 of them carried over house rules from TSR era to 5e. I can't think of any 3e ones even. I may be wrong.

Funny thing the most common house rules in our games are old 4e things like skill challenges and bloodied

 

[Emberashh]

no there is no mechanic it's just "Make it up"

Improvising an Action
Your character can do things not covered by the actions in this chapter, such as breaking down doors, intimidating enemies, sensing weaknesses in magical defenses, or calling for a parley with a foe. The only limits to the actions you can attempt are your imagination and your character's ability scores. See the descriptions of the ability scores in chapter 7 for inspiration as you improvise.

When you describe an action not detailed elsewhere in the rules, the DM tells you whether that action is possible and what kind of roll you need to make, if any, to determine success or failure.

Source: PHB, page 193

The bold is the mechanic, and it fits the definition of a game mechanic. It tells you how to use it, where to look for guidance, and what to expect. Again, that you don't like the mechanic does not make this not a mechanic.

And in fact, Id argue that actually, DMs who don't grant the request, and adjudicate a rulling to determine success or failure, they are deliberately breaking the rule.

"The only limits are your imagination and your characters abilith scores".

DM has no actual say on whats permissible, only what is called for for success, which is not the same thing.

that is almost like saying "Hey I am going to ignore and shout down all these people saying the problem"

You neither being ignored nor shouted down.

How is "I can take a mechanic away" the same as "You have to make up a mechanic for it"

Because they are taking a mechanic away.

 

[Incenjucar]

"I cast Wish by swinging my sword. Since I have four actions, I cast it four times."

 

[Yaarel]

The poll indicates to me that the existing fighter should continue to exist, as it clearly gets plenty of use.

The mythic warrior and other archetypes need to be added separately, rather than fully replacing it.

Maybe the mythic warrior archetype can utilize the Fighter design space of the subclass levels and the two extra feat levels.

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

DM has no actual say on whats permissible, only what is called for for success, which is not the same thing.

wait what!?!?!

did you just say a DM can't rule an action can't be done or auto fails?

So the DM has to set a DC to jump to the moon, to fly and to apply the charm condition?

SO my rogue with Expertise in Persuasion wants to get past the guard and I say "I want to quick talk and dominate him into letting me by" the DM can't say "No you can't duplicate a 4th level spell with your skill they can only set a DC?

 

[OldSchoolGamerGirl]

"I cast Wish by swinging my sword. Since I have four actions, I cast it four times."

make an Arcana check... its going to be the hardest DC in the game DC 30

 

[Emberashh]

So the DM has to set a DC to jump to the moon, to fly and to apply the charm condition?

Sure. If you have some means of hitting the DCs then by all means go for it.

Making a check doesn't eat up that much table time and the resulting mockery from the peasants will be quite enjoyable.

And Charming in particular isn't even egregious; thats a Charisma check and I expect your best Gilderoy Lockhart.

my rogue with Expertise in Persuasion wants to get past the guard and I say "I want to quick talk and dominate him into letting me by" the DM can't say "No you can't duplicate a 4th level spell with your skill they can only set a DC?

Persuasion check to convince the guard. Ezpz.