D&D 5E Do you use the flanking rule?

[The Human Target]

Thanks for all the comments.

Additional questions, if I may:

1) those that do not use flanking for the stated reasons (added complexity appears to be the most common in the few answers up to now), have you tried playing with it? Or has a decision been taken on the perceived consequence of the rule?

2) those that do use flanking: it seems to me that in 4E, flanking had a lesser scope for the following reasons:
- a creature could not move around an enemy it was engaged with without provoking an OA, consequently getting into a flanking position was more difficult
- flanking granted a +2 bonus, which is muss less than the advantage it now grants

So do you find that flanking happens very often, and/or becomes an important decider for battles? I.e. is advantage very frequent due to flanking? Do you then perceive it as the norm, as opposed to the exception that it is under the default rules?

Also, does using tougher solo or a low-number (2-3) of creatures require these creatures to be stronger to make up for the flanking?

Do rogues benefit from a very significant boost with this rule?

I am discussing with my players about introducing flanking. However the fighter in our group is a shield bearer and has a feat that allows him to push an opponent to the ground, and further attacks against the prone enemy are then made with advantage. It seems to me that if advantage can be had more easily, this fighter's feat choice would become less interesting.

What about using a +2 attack bonus instead of advantage?

A lot of 4e powers are based on the movement of yourself, allies, and enemies in melee combat in order to flank and gain Combat Advantage (or avoiding being flanked and granting CA.) I'd say it's the heart of the combat system.

I would recommend using the +2 to hit for flanking in 5e. Advantage is a powerful blunt tool, and they really over used it in 5e.

 

[Harzel]

My players demanded something along these lines, so I use my own form of facing: attacks from the flanks get +1 and attacks from the rear get +2. Adjudicating facing does occasionally slow combat down a little.

 

[Xeviat]

I don't use it in my games, as I feel advantage is easy enough to get. It weakens things like reckless attack, and it's simply big. Flanking an opponent already locks them down and makes it impossible for them to get away without taking an OA, so I don't think flanking needs anything.


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[Queer Venger]

Do you use the optional flanking rule from page 251 of the DMG?

If so, how does it work for you?

If not, why do you choose to disregard it?

I do, it works great, makes combat more strategic.

 

[Leatherhead]

Yes, my groups do use flanking.

Here is what it does to my games:
It makes melee combat dangerous (obviously)

• Swarms of "minion" monsters become significantly become threatening, even to the heavily armored (21 ac) front line characters.
• Choke points and formations become vastly more important.
• Crits happen.
• Debuffs don't sting quite so much, even though inflicting disadvantage is noticeably significant.
• Groups get by just fine without having the traditional buff support, and people spend less time digging for buffs.

As a result of this, melee characters become more exciting to play.

I highly recommend giving it a go. It doesn't add much more math to combats.

 

[abirdcall]

I do, it works great, makes combat more strategic.

Are you sure?

I found the complete opposite to happen.

 

[Arial Black]

I've playtested it both as player and DM.

I've come from 3E, 4E and PF, and they all had a flanking rule, so I felt like there ought to be one in 5E.

I was wrong. It's a really bad rule in 5E compared to 3E where it was good.

Three reasons:-

* compared to 3E where moving from one threatened square to another had to be done in 5 foot steps or provoke an Attack of Opportunity making it tricky to flank sometimes, in 5E you can run in circles around and around the enemy, and you don't suffer an AoO unless you leave its reach. It is much easier and less hazardous to get into flanking position in 5E than in 3E

* compared to 3E where the reward for flanking was a mere +2 to attack, in 5E having advantage is far to big a reward. Combined with the previous point, you do and risk less to get much more reward. It leads to Keystone Cops-type shenanigans where players and DMs move their minis with impunity and hardly ever attack without advantage!

* normally, it's quite tricky to get advantage reliably. You have to make certain build choices (which preclude other choices), and/or suffer some drawback for getting advantage in play. For example, 2 levels of barbarian to get Reckless Attack, then only getting advantage on melee, Str-based attacks while suffering advantage to be hit. After jumping through all those hoops, it's a kick in the teeth to watch everyone else gain advantage so trivially without needing class abilities and without suffering drawbacks. Plus, since two or more lots of advantage do not stack and even one disadvantage wrecks your advantage no matter how many times you qualify for it, the advantage from flanking makes those hard-earned special abilities/spells/etc. a complete waste of time, making those who build for it feel like mugs, and therefore rendering such options nigh-unplayable

After realising this, I removed this optional rule from my game and persuaded the other DM that it was a bad thing. We didn't feel the need to replace it with a lesser flanking rule, and our games are better for it.

 

[vpuigdoller]

I do allow flanking on my games and hasnt ruin the fun at all nor break the game in fact it has worked very nicely.

 

[Arial Black]

I do allow flanking on my games and hasnt ruin the fun at all nor break the game in fact it has worked very nicely.

How many players use Reckless Attack or cast faerie fire in your games?

 

[vpuigdoller]

How many players use Reckless Attack or cast faerie fire in your games?

In current one only one. In the last one I had 3. I understand what you mean, though I didnt see that as breaking the game I as a dm had to be more creative in the positioning of creatures. But indeed if flanking is used you do have to increase the difficulty of the challenge in some situations.

Edited to add this:
I should add, the most important thing should be that your group is having fun, so far it has been for mine. I do understand this might not be the case for all groups.