D&D 5E Do you want D&D Next to succeed?

[MatthewJHanson]

Yes I want it to succeed, but it will not succeed just because a bunch of people on an internet message board want it to.

If it is going to succeed it first and foremost has to be a good game. Not necessarily a game that matches my personal tastes (though my tastes are pretty broad). If I don't like the game, but a 90% of roleplayers do, that's fine. I'll play something else and not begrudge D&D it's success. But if I don't like it and 90% of other roleplayers don't like it, no amount of goodwill will save the game.

Alas making a good game is not the only key to success, and WOTC will also have to do some great marketing and all the rest. I wish them well in those efforts too.

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, I'm not asking for brand loyalty. Nor am I even trying to encourage people to buy the game. Or even to play it.

All I'm saying is, since we're part of a shared community of gamers, I think it's bad for the hobby as a whole if people try to tear down 5e before it's even out. If you care enough about D&D as a concept, brand, or nostalgic memory to consider playing 5e, give it a fair shake, and if you see some news you don't think bodes well, try to express that without being rancorous or negative. Recognize it's a beta right now, and don't rush to form an opinion, because if enough people do that, there'll just be more bitterness and acrimony and claims that "edition warring killed 5e before it had a chance." And the hobby as a whole will suffer.

And, if you don't care enough about D&D as a concept, brand, or nostalgic memory to even consider playing 5e, . . . then definitely please refrain from attacking the game. I've seen a few people on this subforum who have said they have no interest in 5e, yet who still give highly negative critiques. That's like if I, who never plans to read DC Comics, started complaining about how Superman isn't Spider-Man.

I'm not asking for brand loyalty. I'm asking for people not to tear something down before it's finished. If you don't give a damn about standing behind the game, please at least don't try to step in front of it and knock it down.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Well, I'm not asking for brand loyalty. Nor am I even trying to encourage people to buy the game. Or even to play it.

All I'm saying is, since we're part of a shared community of gamers, I think it's bad for the hobby as a whole if people try to tear down 5e before it's even out. If you care enough about D&D as a concept, brand, or nostalgic memory to consider playing 5e, give it a fair shake, and if you see some news you don't think bodes well, try to express that without being rancorous or negative. Recognize it's a beta right now, and don't rush to form an opinion, because if enough people do that, there'll just be more bitterness and acrimony and claims that "edition warring killed 5e before it had a chance." And the hobby as a whole will suffer.

And, if you don't care enough about D&D as a concept, brand, or nostalgic memory to even consider playing 5e, . . . then definitely please refrain from attacking the game. I've seen a few people on this subforum who have said they have no interest in 5e, yet who still give highly negative critiques. That's like if I, who never plans to read DC Comics, started complaining about how Superman isn't Spider-Man.

I'm not asking for brand loyalty. I'm asking for people not to tear something down before it's finished. If you don't give a damn about standing behind the game, please at least don't try to step in front of it and knock it down.

Er... The entire point of a playtest it to attract negative and positive criticism. The negative is just as, if not more, important than the positive. What you're calling "attacking" or "tearing down" is just another form of feedback. People shouldn't hold back because the game is in beta, they should express their opinions as much as possible exactly because it is in beta.

If the people at WotC are being honest in their desire to make a game that appeals to everyone, then the system will only work if people who are not happy with the game speak their mind. It is incredibly important to remember that 5E isn't done yet. It isn't a finished product yet. People who are unhappy with it still have a chance to push it more in a direction they want it to go.

 

[RangerWickett]

Oh, hell yeah, critique it. I don't like the advantage/disadvantage rules, and I think using the traditional Vancian magic system without a big overhaul will be a step back.

But there's a huge difference between:

"I don't think this works. Consider this other thing instead."

and

"Why the hell are we using the same rules for magic we've had for 30 years? I know you Pathfinder-nuts will call me too 'video gamey,' but the best magic system I've seen in years was in the game Magicka. Even 4e's bull**** powers system would be better than what they have."

So, y'know, critique constructively. Don't insult destructively. That's what I'm asking.

 

[JeffB]

Oh, hell yeah, critique it. I don't like the advantage/disadvantage rules, and I think using the traditional Vancian magic system without a big overhaul will be a step back.

But there's a huge difference between:

"I don't think this works. Consider this other thing instead."

and

"Why the hell are we using the same rules for magic we've had for 30 years? I know you Pathfinder-nuts will call me too 'video gamey,' but the best magic system I've seen in years was in the game Magicka. Even 4e's bull**** powers system would be better than what they have."

So, y'know, critique constructively. Don't insult destructively. That's what I'm asking.

I think you have been on the internet long enough to know better than to post this commonsense nonsense!

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Well, I'm not asking for brand loyalty. Nor am I even trying to encourage people to buy the game. Or even to play it.

All I'm saying is, since we're part of a shared community of gamers, I think it's bad for the hobby as a whole if people try to tear down 5e before it's even out. If you care enough about D&D as a concept, brand, or nostalgic memory to consider playing 5e, give it a fair shake, and if you see some news you don't think bodes well, try to express that without being rancorous or negative. Recognize it's a beta right now, and don't rush to form an opinion, because if enough people do that, there'll just be more bitterness and acrimony and claims that "edition warring killed 5e before it had a chance." And the hobby as a whole will suffer.

And, if you don't care enough about D&D as a concept, brand, or nostalgic memory to even consider playing 5e, . . . then definitely please refrain from attacking the game. I've seen a few people on this subforum who have said they have no interest in 5e, yet who still give highly negative critiques. That's like if I, who never plans to read DC Comics, started complaining about how Superman isn't Spider-Man.

I'm not asking for brand loyalty. I'm asking for people not to tear something down before it's finished. If you don't give a damn about standing behind the game, please at least don't try to step in front of it and knock it down.

I'm probably one of those who "tears it down." But it's in an effort to help make 5e - I refuse to use the term "next", I think it's stupid - the best game possible. If I see a crap mechanic, or crappy flavor, I will bitch about it. If no one criticizes the game, it WILL fail.

 

[pauljathome]

So, y'know, critique constructively. Don't insult destructively. That's what I'm asking.

If WOTC is getting anything approximating the number of people giving feedback that they're hoping for then neither really makes any difference.

95+% of the feedback that is actually used will either be
1) The multiple choice surveys
2) What the designers see and hear for themselves in their own games and/or the games they run at cons

The comments you add to the surveys and posts made to message boards will be nearly irrelevant. Far too much noise for the designers to pick up any signal.

At best, WOTC will have some intern or netizen look at the boards and give a summary back to the designers.

Also, of course, one persons constructive criticism is another persons destructive insult. Especially on the net.

But if all you're really trying to say is "Play nice" then
1) Sure. Agreed
2) Your first post really, really, really did not make that clear. Really.

 

[Tony Vargas]

What on earth would make you say such a thing. Who "worked hard to make 4E fail"? How could anyone make 4E fail beyond the people who designed and marketed it? Are you blaming them?

Little thing called the edition war. You may have noticed it. Marketing is a big part of any product's success, and in a niche hobby like ours, word-of-mouth (or internet) is a big part of it. Word of mouth can be negative, as well as positive - and based on irrational rejection as well as personal experience. So, yes.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Little thing called the edition war. You may have noticed it. Marketing is a big part of any product's success, and in a niche hobby like ours, word-of-mouth (or internet) is a big part of it. Word of mouth can be negative, as well as positive - and based on irrational rejection as well as personal experience. So, yes.

So, rendering an opinion constitutes subversion?

In that case, there were a lot of people who worked towards the demise of the prior D&D editions, as well as those nefarious writers trying to sabotage The Dark Knight Rises by giving it bad reviews.

There are certainly people who dislike 4e (and who dislike many other things), but I seriously doubt their opinions constitute a meaningful effort to make it fail, nor am I seeing how they are inherently "irrational". Or is the case that people have done something above and beyond giving their opinions?

Personally, I'll be looking at 5e with a critical eye and speaking my mind on it (as with any significant development in a hobby of mine), but there's nothing more to it than that.

 

[Pickles JG]

I want it to fail. If it suceeds it will draw players away from games that I like playing & it's already hard enough to get playgroups as it is.

Also I sold all of my Hasbro stock & invested in Paizo so I don't want their value to collapse once everyone deserts the abomination that is Pathfinder.

If despite being all things to all men & contra the evidence to date it is any good I will embrace it whole heartedly & woe to anyone who does not. The above does not then apply. Well the second paragraph does but that is not true anyway. Mind you neither is the first.