D&D 5E Does anyone else feel like the action economy and the way actions work in general in 5e both just suck?

[practicalm]

Play GURPS with 1 second turns or HERO where turns are broken up into segments if you want. D&D will always be a compromise.
There are so many systems out there that complaining that x system does do what I want and has to change is really tiring. Go find a system you like then.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

It's not elegant like D6 System or (to a lesser extent) Pathfinder 2. There are kludges. But it works ok. It's certainly far better than 3e. 4e's system is better in some ways, certainly looks more elegant, but 4e lacked the big massive spell effects enabled by Concentration.

Kludges?

 

[Son of the Serpent]

Play GURPS with 1 second turns or HERO where turns are broken up into segments if you want. D&D will always be a compromise.
There are so many systems out there that complaining that x system does do what I want and has to change is really tiring. Go find a system you like then.

I generally dont favor the passive route (you can take that route if you want but if i was going to i think i already would have). Im not strictly a consumer. Im also a builder. I favor the "change something until its better" route. So, you can do that thing you're suggesting and im gonna keep doing mine.

Cool.

 

[Garthanos]

Reactions and movement I think are great. Making movement a more granular resource rather than a single “move action” is a cool piece of design tech that allows for interesting things like breaking up your movement with your attack, and movement as a cost for things like mounting and standing up. I think this is a bit under-utilized; for example, I feel like you could make the old “shift” a thing you can do by spending movement equal to your speed instead of making Disengaging an action. Reactions aren’t as innovative as movement, but they are still solid design; they’re clear and they work well.

The Reaction seem massively too restrictive to me atleast if someone has multiple attacks they can attack up to 4 times spread out during their turn but only react and do an opportunity attack once?? I mean huh? They had to make really kludgy rules for the Cavalier to even have somewhat decent defender function because of restrictions like that.

And then there’s Extra Attack, and things that cost one of your attacks to do... This is probably the aspect of 5e’s action economy I like the least. You just have to memorize what things only cost one attack instead of a whole action. And it’s only relevant for martial characters of 5th level or higher. Ick.

There is some weirdness I see it in how the attack action is split into multiple attacks for those with extra attacks but in game one action sure action in game is Jargon but pretends it isn't. I choose to take an attack action I can end up with extra attacks left over and still only get one reaction.

EDIT: Oh, and the part where if you cast a spell as a bonus action you can’t cast a spell as an action unless it’s a cantrip. That’s a pretty awful rule.

Well its definitely not too pretty what the rule reminds me of is in 4e they identified a basic attack and certain at-wills were sometimes useable when you normally can only use a basic attack.

 

[S'mon]

Kludges?

Specifically the "if you cast a bonus action spell, only cantrips may be cast as standard action".

 

[Krachek]

Interest is piqued. Elaborate please?

In a role play perspective thinking about action economy or simply « how do I spend my bonus action », is a breach in the character play.
It would be better to go with simpler rules and common sense.

having offhand attack separated from extra attack feature, or the endless debate about the shield master shield attack timing are some examples that the system don’t help game play, but rather put emphasis on a technical aspect and ruling.

 

[Todd Roybark]

Yet, another discontent thread about how a portion of the rules in 5e work. This is getting old. Play another version of D&D or another RPG that does what you want.

Yeah, how dare someone, new to 5e, post their concerns. I mean it is not like a message board is meant for discussion, right?

What I find ‘old’, is people pooping on a thread topic that does not appeal to them, instead of making their Wisdom save and walking away.

I’m not, trying to single you out atanakar, I fail those type of saves all the time as well, (like now).

Feeling frustrated at something you care about, and sharing your frustrations with people who also care about that same something is truly old....as old as humanity.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think that best way to remove the action economy problem would be to get rid of the bonus action.

In what way? If you mean like Mike Mearls' idea of specific abilities to encapsulate the effects of a bonus action and action together, it can work but you lose generality. Example: bonus action spells become normal actions which include also an attack. But then, you don't have options to combine them with something else.

If you mean to turn everything that is currently a bonus action into a regular action, then it will indeed be a lot simpler. As long as players accept that they'll have to pick one single action per turn and nothing more.

 

[Oofta]

The Thief does get Fast Hands that means they can use an object as a bonus action. However we have a definition for what they mean:

Use an Object​

You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack. When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn.​

So it's defined as a single action. Donning armor takes more than a single action therefore does not qualify.

 

[atanakar]

Yeah, how dare someone, new to 5e, post their concerns. I mean it is not like a message board is meant for discussion, right?

What I find ‘old’, is people pooping on a thread topic that does not appeal to them, instead of making their Wisdom save and walking away.

I’m not, trying to single you out atanakar, I fail those type of saves all the time as well, (like now).

Feeling frustrated at something you care about, and sharing your frustrations with people who also care about that same something is truly old....as old as humanity.

I was reacting mostly to the phrasing and tone of the title and the OP. It could have been written in a much less aggravating way. I would have reacted differently.