Does corn Ethanol need to die?

[JoeGKushner]

I mean, watching the news and they talk about the price of wheat going up over double it's last year value and the price of flour going up almost three times it's value last year and then claim that it's because more land is used for corn and that there is a spike in wheat demand.

So.... when do we shut down the corn ethanol plants?

 

[Starman]

This could really vier off in to politics, so I'll tread carefully.

The problem is farm subsidies. The farmers make a lot more money growing corn than they do other products. Our approach to farm subsidies needs a major overhaul, but rich lobbyists have prevented this from happening.

 

[trancejeremy]

Corn's just not a very effective source for ethanol. That's the real trouble. Sugar, like they use in Brazil, is much better.

That said, there's still a heck of a lot of unused farmland left unfallow (at least around where I live) that could be put into use.

 

[Umbran]

Corn's just not a very effective source for ethanol. That's the real trouble. Sugar, like they use in Brazil, is much better.

Just so you know - sugar is the basis for most ethanol production. Yeast eat sugar and excrete alcohol. The question is where the sugar comes from. Corn (by way of starch), beets, or sugarcane are big sources.

But, sugarcane won't grow in the American plains. Mind you, switchgrass does. It is rich in cellulose which can be broken down into sugars. Or, the cellulose can be broken up into hydrogen and CO2, which can be processed into ethanol. The question is if either process can be made economical. In theory, it may be better than corn.

 

[LightPhoenix]

Just so you know - sugar is the basis for most ethanol production. Yeast eat sugar and excrete alcohol. The question is where the sugar comes from. Corn (by way of starch), beets, or sugarcane are big sources.

But, sugarcane won't grow in the American plains. Mind you, switchgrass does. It is rich in cellulose which can be broken down into sugars. Or, the cellulose can be broken up into hydrogen and CO2, which can be processed into ethanol. The question is if either process can be made economical. In theory, it may be better than corn.

Sugarcane is a much better source for ethanol, and it's easier and more efficient to convert simple sugars than polysaccharides into ethanol. There's a lot of research on making corn ethanol extraction efficient, but the better avenue of research is making heartier sugarcane or making sugar-laden alternatives (ie a "sweet" switchgrass as mentioned). This is pretty much where I hit the "no politics" wall, but there are non-sciency reasons this isn't getting funding.

Anyway, there are reasons to explore corn ethanol production - in the US there is a huge amount of corn, and corn produces a lot of organic waste. It's just not efficient in any practical way, and it's pretty much considered a fad by any bio/chemical/environmental engineers. That's laying aside the issue that ethanol isn't a particularly efficient fuel, however I know groups are doing work on hydrocarbon and long-chain alcohol production.

 

[kenobi65]

A few thoughts (I used to have the U.S.'s biggest producer of corn ethanol as a client )

- Beyond the "reduce our dependence on foreign oil" angle, ethanol is also used to reduce pollution. It's a gasoline additive in those areas of the country with significant air pollution issues (and isn't as problematic as the other alternative, MTBE, which is a carcinogen).

- Clearly, there's a lot of politics tied up in this issue. If we're talking solely about U.S.-sourced ethanol feedstocks, the advantage to corn is that it's a process that's been worked on for 30 years now (President Carter first approached my former client and asked them to pursue this in the late 1970s). Before gasoline went over $3 a gallon, the demand for corn ethanol wasn't high enough that it had an impact on food prices.

 

[MonkeyDragon]

One of the other side affects is that feed corn for stock becomes more expensive. Many of you may have noticed milk becoming more expensive. My company had to raise the prices of our drinks (coffeeshop) to counteract the rising price we pay for our dairy and the fuel for all the delivery trucks.

 

[Relique du Madde]

The problem with prices going up for corn is related to the US Economy's downward spiral into irreverence and well as the rising cost of oil.. Sadly, it take oil (in the form of diesel) to harvest the crops and produce the ethanol.

 

[Ranger REG]

The problem with prices going up for corn is related to the US Economy's downward spiral into irreverence and well as the rising cost of oil.. Sadly, it take oil (in the form of diesel) to harvest the crops and produce the ethanol.

Talk about irony. Are there equipment that can run on ethanol most efficiently to produce ethanol surplus for commercial purpose?

 

[Dioltach]

Before gasoline went over $3 a gallon ...

You don't know how good you have it. There was an article on the Dutch news this morning saying that the price of petrol has just hit the EUR 1.50 mark. That's per litre. It works out at around USD $10 per gallon.

I paid EUR 65 for 45 litres just the other day.