Does evil mean Evil? Is a paladin free to act against evil?

[Geoff Watson]

Detect Evil is basically useless as anyone who isn't a paragon of virtue can detect as evil if the DM feels like it; also detecting as evil doesn't mean anything as the paladin isn't allowed to use that knowledge in any way.

Also, a Paladin must have suberb forsight and see all possible effects of any action, for any result that isn't purest good will cause them to lose their paladin abilities.

That seems to be what many DMs are saying. Why don't you just ban Paladins rather than stuffing over any player who dares play one?

Geoff.

 

[Kalanyr]

Heh, Paragon of Virture = Good.

Since 1/3 of all humans are good (or evil) I'm gonna go out on a limb and say being good doesn't equate to the willingness to give one's life for a stranger, seems more like being willing to give of oneself to a stranger.

This leads to the idea that a neutral will only sacrifice his own time/money/whatever for his family and friends. Being willing to sacrifice his life for them probably pushes him into good.

And someone evil is someone who doesn't want to sacrifice anything of themselves for anybody at all.

Given this there's a lot of Not-Paragon of Virtues who don't ping as evil. But those that do aren't necessarily deserving of doom and destruction thereby. Its still useful information, if you suspect that the henchman the party rogue picked up is a spy for the Dark Lord Darky McEvil, a detect evil is fairly likely to let you know whether or not thats probably the case to investigate most closely. It can also be used in battle with hostiles to check if they are evil to see if your smite will do extra painful good damage to them. Really I think Detect Evil has plenty of use without it being a Kill On Sight Radar.

 

[DGFan]

But it still wouldn't be good. Judge Dread was certainly not good, as he lacked any respect for life. He never tried to redeem the evil ones either.

Faint evil auras deserve a chance at redemption. But if you're a 2nd+ level cleric of an evil god you have devoted your life to the advancement of evil. In that case you simply have to die. And the paladin is there to facilitate it.

 

[DGFan]

If I were playing the Paladin I would want to find out what detecting evil meant in that GM's campaign. Eg if 33% (or 40%+ according to NPC tables!) of people Det as Evil, apparently evil is a near-universal condition, so I'd be wary but take no immdediate action based on the reading.

IMC you only detect as Evil if you Radiate evil (as per 1e) - Det Evil IMC isn't a radar, it's a passive detector. Which means Outsiders, Demons, Devils, serial killers, high priests of evil gods, that kind of thing. A Paladin should strive against those Evil forces whenever possible.

I don't buy the idea that because there are 3 alignments (good, neutral, evil) that 33% of the people detect as each one. Most people are clustered around neutral with very few the closer you get to the extremes (ie. the ones who show up as "good" or "evil").

A farmer who occasionally steals a chicken from his neighbor, lies occasionally, and cheated on his wife once, but otherwise leads a decent life might not even show up as evil other than a very faint aura. He's not evil - just selfish.

Jeffrey Dahmer was evil. And if one of my paladins* sees him in the street he will be dead soon after.

* when I say "my paladins" I mean the paladins living in the game world I designed. I have never actually played a paladin.

 

[Darkness]

Paladins are God's Hand upon the earth.

And by 'God' you mean 'Good' and 'Law', correct?
'cause paladins don't need a god.

 

[Storminator]

Consider this:

the great city of Goodlight is considered one of the most peaceful places in the land. Watched over by an order of Paladins it has remained untouched by evil over the long years. But yet Evil can be sneaky some times, it can sneak into the hearts of the most pure, and so the Paladins must remain ever warry. To help keep the city pure every year there is the "Week of Scouring" when the Order comes down from their fortress. The Paladins go througout the town, sweaping every inch with their power. Any evil dooers found, regardless of age, sex, or race, are rounded up and brought to the great central square where they are executed.

IMC, there is the frontier city of Swordpoint. It's the only city in the world run by Paladins. If you'd like to move to Swordpoint, you officially convert to Areon and are tested by the Paladins. If you're faintly evil, you are denied residence, and must live outside the walls. If, at a later date, you wish to try again, you can reapply and be retested. If you are moderately evil or stronger, expect to attacked.

Other cities in the nation aren't so militant. Not quite as brutal at Goodlight, but still pretty cut and dried.

PS

 

[MerricB]

And by 'God' you mean 'Good' and 'Law', correct?
'cause paladins don't need a god.

Well, I subscribe to the school of thought which requires paladins to have a god, or at least serve the good part of the pantheon.

Cheers!

 

[diaglo]

sorry i missed yesterday.

in my campaign. alignment is a very real part of everyday life.

goblins are evil.

however, a paladin would never detect evil willy-nilly. he would first speak to the stranger to determine the intent of the encounter.

if he suspected the stranger of being evil. he would follow his code.

first being to forewarn the stranger of his attempt to determine his nature. then act accordingly to the results.

either an apology or a stern warning or a challenge. either to repent or change the errors of his ways or to combat.

 

[FireLance]

IMC, there is the frontier city of Swordpoint. It's the only city in the world run by Paladins. If you'd like to move to Swordpoint, you officially convert to Areon and are tested by the Paladins. If you're faintly evil, you are denied residence, and must live outside the walls. If, at a later date, you wish to try again, you can reapply and be retested. If you are moderately evil or stronger, expect to attacked.

PS

Ah, nostalgia . My very first homebrew campaign world, way back when I started with 1e AD&D, featured a city with the terribly un-original name of Palinor. It was similar to Gondor in Middle Earth - built at the mouth of the only pass in a mountain range wide enough for the evil overlords of the Darklands next door (14-year-old creativity strikes again ) to march armies through. It was the closest thing I ever had to a city run by paladins.

There were three main gods worshipped in Palinor. They represented justice, mercy and the fight against evil, which was what my 14-year-old brain understood Lawful Good to be.

People did not come to Palinor to lead an easy life. They came to fight against evil, and to buy safety for the rest of the civilised world with their blood. It was axiomatic in my world that the day Palinor fell would be the day that evil finally triumphs, because there would no longer be any people with the courage or determination or self-sacrifice to stand against it.

 

[Umbran]

Since 1/3 of all humans are good (or evil) I'm gonna go out on a limb and say being good doesn't equate to the willingness to give one's life for a stranger, seems more like being willing to give of oneself to a stranger.

Hm. Seems to me you're already out on a limb in saying that 1/3 of all humans are good (or evil). I don't know where you came up with that number, but I'm pretty sure it isn't in the core rules anywhere.

Demographics are the purview of individual DMs. If we want to go by the books, we have only a couple of guidelines. In the DMG, fully half of all NPCs created for encounters are evil. But this doesn't mean much, as most of the population isn't there for "encounters".

In the PHB, we are told that the "most common" alignment for humans is flat Neutral. That implies that over a third of humans are such, leaving less than one third for the extremes.