D&D 5E Does extra-attack work with bows and crossbows?

[Ancalagon]

I think "rider" damage in itself is ok. I personally just don't like the fact that a fighter with a ranged weapon and a fighter with a mêlée weapon on roughly equal levels of optimization deal roughly the same damage, despite the ranged one:

• Depending on a better stat a with better save -- Str save is basically worthless, Dex save is both common and bears some nasty effects on fail
• Still being able to fight in mêlée when things go south, unlike a str-fighter who can't viably attack at a long range
• Having the same to hit bonus without XE, and two more with it
• Being able to make attacks more often -- it's far easier to get within 60' of the target than to get into 5' or 10'
• Generally taking less risk when fighting
• And, yeah, stealth is no joke too

When we get to real charop, a fighter with a hand crossbow can do pretty much everything that a fighter with a glaive can, and also has some benefits on top of that. Basically, they give up only 1 AC and very situational ability to grapple and shove that is better handled by barbs or weird rogues anyway.

Oh that's a big problem in D&D. Dex is too good and ranged combat is too good. Ranged combat, as you say, have huge tactical benefits over melee.

When trying to fix things, it's good to look at what is the "root" of the problem. And I think that it is that, unlike 3e, dex does damage. In 3e, if you were a rogue and had weapon finesse, you could use your dex bonus to attack... but not damage.

Some ranged weapons didn't apply strength damage (a crossbow doesn't care how strong you are), but thrown weapons did. Bows were a bid different, as in you could get "strength" bows - bows that were much harder to draw but hit harder, allowing you to apply your strength bonus (up to a point - different bows had different amount of strength you could put in). Other characters didn't rely on strength but instead sneak attacks, poison, magic enhancement etc.

In 5e, they decided that for simplicity's sake, dex would also apply to damage. and now we are in this mess...

 

[NotAYakk]

Do you have these somewhere?

I just put some up here:

NotAYakk's Homebrew

You are schooled in multiple combat techniques best used with bladed weapons; daggers, rapiers, short swords, scimitars, long swords and greatswords. You know a spinning combat style that leverages the deadly leverage of Axes; the hand axe, battleaxe and greataxe. You have mastered a...

www.enworld.org

because, why not.

 

[TwoSix]

I just put some up here:

NotAYakk's Homebrew

You are schooled in multiple combat techniques best used with bladed weapons; daggers, rapiers, short swords, scimitars, long swords and greatswords. You know a spinning combat style that leverages the deadly leverage of Axes; the hand axe, battleaxe and greataxe. You have mastered a...

www.enworld.org

because, why not.

Very impressive stuff.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Taking two Attack Actions for whatever reason (Action Surge, Haste, etc) doesn't allow the character to draw two swords, so granularity between Attack Action and individual Attack doesn't really matter in this case.

I know the thread has already resolved, but I wanted to point out that there in fact is an enormous difference between the Attack (always capitalized) action (whether you get one or more due to a special feature) and individual attacks (always lowercase). They are 5e jargon and mean entirely different things. It's like a move action versus movement in 3e (an example that is funny in context, since that particular distinction does not exist in 5e).