Does sniping while hidden deal sneak attack damage?

[irdeggman]

It's one of those places where the "Common Sense" rulebook really needs to take over.

This is like sayng that concealment denies your opponent their Dex bonus. The rules do not support this one at all.

 

[Mistwell]

This is like sayng that concealment denies your opponent their Dex bonus. The rules do not support this one at all.

I disagree. Concealment is not nearly equivelent to totally unseen. Concealment gives a percentage miss chance against something that you know is there, in that spot and visible to you at that time, it's just hard to hit them (because they are blurry or whatever). Hidden however is totally unseen, and invisible is also totally unseen, so the two are equivelent (and it's just common sense that totally unseen be adjudicated the same no matter what it is that is making you totally unseen).

 

[DungeonMaester]

I disagree only that Sniping would deny dex/use flat footed ac.

although there are not any rules to support it (That I know of) sniping would be more like flanking despite the fact it is not a team effort.

---Rusty

 

[Mistwell]

"If your Hide check succeeds, your target doesn't notice you until you attack or make some other attention-grabbing action. Such a target is treated as being flat-footed with respect to you." Complete Adventurer, Page 102.

 

[irdeggman]

I disagree. Concealment is not nearly equivelent to totally unseen. Concealment gives a percentage miss chance against something that you know is there, in that spot and visible to you at that time, it's just hard to hit them (because they are blurry or whatever). Hidden however is totally unseen, and invisible is also totally unseen, so the two are equivelent (and it's just common sense that totally unseen be adjudicated the same no matter what it is that is making you totally unseen).

Except that total concealment (PHB pg 152) says essentially that you can't see him.

The combat modifiers table (PHB pg 151) does not state that a defender loses his Dex bonus when his attacker has concealment. It sends you to the concealment section (pg 152) which also does not have the defender lose his Dex bonus to AC.

 

[irdeggman]

"If your Hide check succeeds, your target doesn't notice you until you attack or make some other attention-grabbing action. Such a target is treated as being flat-footed with respect to you." Complete Adventurer, Page 102.

Read the rest of the context where this is contained. It is specifically talking about "moving between cover" not hiding in general. It would appear that denying Dex bonus is a combination of hiding and moving, at least in this cntext.

 

[billd91]

The trouble with the Hide skill is WotC left it pretty ambiguous what the practical benefits of it are, particularly with respect to getting a sneak attack or not. Since hiding was always a mandatory requirement of backstabing in 1st edition, I take that to mean that hiding should anable someone to make a sneak attack.

Since hiding successfully means that the hiding character cannot be seen, I also take that to satisfy the definition of invisible in the DMG's condition summary.

Again, this is my interpretation of the RAW since the RAW is ambiguous about what the benefits should really be.

 

[Darklone]

"If your Hide check succeeds, your target doesn't notice you until you attack or make some other attention-grabbing action. Such a target is treated as being flat-footed with respect to you." Complete Adventurer, Page 102.

Tha dang D&D designers stole my houserule! Dangnabit!

 

[Mistwell]

Read the rest of the context where this is contained. It is specifically talking about "moving between cover" not hiding in general. It would appear that denying Dex bonus is a combination of hiding and moving, at least in this cntext.

That particular sentence is not about moving between cover. It's about moving out of cover and sneaking up on someone to attack them. If you can come up with a logical and reasonable explanation why sneaking up behind someone would deny dex bonus but shooting at them from an unknown location further away would not deny dex bonus, I'm all ears. But I think it's pretty obvious that you don't get your dex bonus if being attacked by someone you cannot see and didn't know was there (whether you call it invisibility, hiding, sniping, ambushing, back stabbing, or elephanting).

 

[Mistwell]

Except that total concealment (PHB pg 152) says essentially that you can't see him.

Kindly post the rule you are citing. Not all of us have a book in front of us, which is why I and others are posting the rule we are citing so everyone can see it.