D&D (2024) Does the concept of subspecies of Elves come across as racist to you

[Mirrorrorrim]

Yeah if they want something like gnolls to be a pure monster, it needs to be consistently not playable.

Not adding it as a playable, letting people make characters/stories as that species and get attached to them, and then change things again to make them a pure evil unplayable monster.

I wonder how many PC gnolls are out there?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I wonder how many PC gnolls are out there?

I mean in 5e at this point, probably very few. Either people using homebrew to make a gnoll race from scratch, or continue playing their character from an earlier edition.

 

[billd91]

I wonder how many PC gnolls are out there?

For 5e? Probably very few considering I don't believe there were every any player-facing 5e rules on them. WotC's been angling to making them pure villain for the whole 5e run. Shifting them from humanoid to monstrosity just pushes that barrier a bit farther.
It kind of looks like, given the complaints about racist terms for other humanoid races and shifts in terms for them, they're acting to reserve one for that pure, evil, savage raider role.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Honestly I'd rather they move gnolls to become a playable like orcs and drow, and then make a dedicated 'monster species' which fills a similar role, but without the baggage of once being a player race.

 

[Scribe]

Honestly I'd rather they move gnolls to become a playable like orcs and drow, and then make a dedicated 'monster species' which fills a similar role, but without the baggage of once being a player race.

You know that all that does is shift the goal posts, because someone will inevitably want to play the 'monster species' and this whole fiasco keeps on turning?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

You know that all that does is shift the goal posts, because someone will inevitably want to play the 'monster species' and this whole fiasco keeps on turning?

Difference is a new one would always have been a monster creature with no exceptions. While playable gnolls have been a thing in every edition except 5e.

Unplayable gnolls is the exception, not the norm.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I wonder how many PC gnolls are out there?

Who cares? Options are good. Taking away options is bad.

 

[Scribe]

Difference is a new one would always have been a monster creature with no exceptions. While playable gnolls have been a thing in every edition except 5e.

Unplayable gnolls is the exception, not the norm.

Sure but those are changes no? Was Gnoll/Orc/Drow, all playable on the release of each edition?

 

[Cadence]

I can't speak to 4e, but gnolls were Humanoids in MM 2014. They were even playable Humanoids in Volo's Guide to Monsters. But when the Volo's stat blocks were reprinted in MotM, gnolls became Monstrosities.

Even worse. Changed mid-edition.

Where were they said to be playable in 5e? It doesn't seem like it was in Volo (and I double checked the errata to see if this was a change):

Pg. 33 - "As creatures that spran up in the wake of a demon lord, gnolls are creatures of savage blood lust, incapable of any other impulse. They are extensions of Yeenoghu's will."

The note on roleplaying one (presumably as an NPC?) has:

Pg. 36 - "Gnolls have little variation in personality and outlook. They are collectively an elemental force, driven by a demon lord to spread death and destruction."

And even though they are listed as humanoid in Volo and the monster manual, the descriptions seem to fit the reclassification. Here are some from the 1st printing of the 5e MM:

Pg. 52 - "Gnolls are [Yeenoghu's] moral isntruments, and he drives them to ever-greater atrocities in his name"

Pg. 161 - "The gnools then scattered across the face of the world, a dire reminder of demonic poser... They attack like a plague of locusts... They don't make weaons or armor, but scavenge... No Goodness or compassion resides in the heart of the gnoll. ... Even the most savage orcs avoid allying with gnolls."

 

[Zubatcarteira]

If that's how Volo described them, we can safely assume they're all Lawful Good saints.