Does True Seeing see some who is using Hide in Plain Sight

[KarinsDad]

So true seeing foils the mundane rogue's attempt to Hide using the concealment normally provided by mundane shadows, but does not foil the supernatural shadowdancer's attempt to HiPS even if he's only within 10 ft. of a shadow.

Precisely.

Just like a Detect Magic would detect the magic of the Su HiPS when it is being used.

 

[Nifft]

Precisely.

Just like a Detect Magic would detect the magic of the Su HiPS when it is being used.

But not in a particularly useful way -- HiPS isn't an ongoing effect.

It would be far more useful to track the 2nd level Shadowdancer's Darkvision (Su) ability, which can't be turned off, and which has a duration.

(Has it been mentioned that Shadowdancers suck?)

Cheers, -- N

EDIT: I'm pleased you agree, but you do know that you're agreeing with a contradiction to your previous position, right?

 

[KarinsDad]

EDIT: I'm pleased you agree, but you do know that you're agreeing with a contradiction to your previous position, right?

I misread what you wrote. Opps.

 

[BryonD]

That is the exact same way I rule it, also.

I would as well.
The True Sight guy sees them and then they become hidden and the True Sight is useless against being hidden.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I misread what you wrote. Opps.

A likely story!

 

[Nifft]

I misread what you wrote. Opps.

Glad we're back on the same page about being on different pages.

Let's start the argument here: True seeing trumps mundane darkness, and fails to penetrate supernatural obscuring mist.

Cheerfully yours, -- N

 

[KarinsDad]

Glad we're back on the same page about being on different pages.

Let's start the argument here: True seeing trumps mundane darkness, and fails to penetrate supernatural obscuring mist.

I have no problem with this.

But to me, HiPS is a Su effect on the user. In order to be able to hide at all, he needs to do something if he does not have cover or concealment. That something is magical and that magical something only affects him. No different than Invisibility except that he has to roll the dice from my POV.

 

[Nifft]

I have no problem with this.

But to me, HiPS is a Su effect on the user. In order to be able to hide at all, he needs to do something if he does not have cover or concealment. That something is magical and that magical something only affects him. No different than Invisibility except that he has to roll the dice from my POV.

The difference is that true seeing penetrates invisibility (or any other Illusion effect). That's called out explicitly in the list of stuff true seeing sees through.

HiPS is not an effect of the Illusion school, is not mundane or magical darkness, etc. It's just not on the list.

Can you justify how it's identical to invisibility? Because that makes no sense to me.

Thanks, -- N

 

[KarinsDad]

The difference is that true seeing penetrates invisibility (or any other Illusion effect). That's called out explicitly in the list of stuff true seeing sees through.

HiPS is not an effect of the Illusion school, is not mundane or magical darkness, etc. It's just not on the list.

Can you justify how it's identical to invisibility? Because that makes no sense to me.

Via game mechanics, HiPS is just like Invisibility except that a Hide check has to be rolled. For example, to hit that HiPS character, an attacker would have a 50% miss chance. I wasn't trying to say that it is invisibility, but for all intents and purposes, a successfully hiding character is not seen by opponents and gains many of the advantages of invisibility.

You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are.

The character using HiPS is not actually in the shadow.


The problem with HiPS is that it does not state how it works.

It does not state if shadows wrap around the target or how exactly the magic works. But, it is a Su ability for Shadowdancers, hence, it is magical.

As magic, there should be a reasonable magical counter to it.

One could possibly state that Detect Magic is a magical counter to it, but Detect Magic will only give so much info after a significant period of time.

See Invsible will not counter it.

The only core spell left is True Seeing (TMK).

True Seeing is basically designed to see through illusion and transmutation magic. HiPS is magical.

If HiPS is not illusion magic, then what kind of magic is it? It doesn't state. Since it deals with hiding and shadows, that basically shouts the Illusion school, but we are not explicitly told.

Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others.

Now, we do not know what school of magic HiPS is. I totally agree with you that HiPS is not explicitly on the list of True Seeing. But, HiPS Su is magical. And True Seeing states that it will not see through "simple hiding". But HiPS is not simple hiding. It is magical hiding because it is magical and it allows hiding when hiding would normally not be allowed.

I agree with you that my interpretation is not explicitly stated in the True Seeing spell or the HiPS description. But, it is a reasonable interpretation based on how other magic works in the game and the intent of the True Seeing spell.

The interpretation is "HiPS is magical hiding and True Seeing is limited to not viewing simple hiding".

And, it is reasonable that a magical special ability would have a magical counter. Especially a magical counter that costs gold to even cast versus a special ability that can be acquired as early as 6th level.

I don't think a simple Su deception ability should defeat one of the most potent divination spells in the game. JMO.


But literally, I agree that your interpretation could be viewed as literal RAW. I view this question, however, as an omission of what type of magic HiPS is, the intent of True Seeing, and a game balance issue.

 

[Sejs]

The only core spell left is True Seeing (TMK).

Faerie Fire.