Does two-weapon fighting stack with flurry?

[AGGEMAM]

There also the small fact that you can't make two full attack action in one round.

A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.

You see flurry is a special full attack action in that you have to decide upon using it before you make any attacks for the round, same as with rapid shot.

 

[Darklone]

AGGEMAMs arguments ignoring: He's right

There was something in the FAQ or Sage Advice that confirmed that there's no flurry of blows with TWF... even with monk weapons.

 

[Li Shenron]

You see flurry is a special full attack action in that you have to decide upon using it before you make any attacks for the round, same as with rapid shot.

But you can use flurry or rapid shot "on top" of a normal high-BAB routine of attacks even if that is already a full round action.

If Flurry was a special full-round action then I would agree, but i think it is nothing more than a reminder that whenever you make more than 1 attack on your turn it is always a full-attack and therefore a full round action. Let's not make confusion with special melee attacks that use standard actions.

 

[AGGEMAM]

But you can use flurry or rapid shot "on top" of a normal high-BAB routine of attacks even if that is already a full round action.

No.

You must decide to use the full attack action before making any attacks for the round and more specifically which full attack action. You can break of the full attack action after the first attack to make move or mea if either is allowed but you have to decide on using your full attack action at the beginning of your turn.

I know many people who play this wrong.

Full Attack

If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.

The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.

If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.

Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.

 

[Li Shenron]

There was something in the FAQ or Sage Advice that confirmed that there's no flurry of blows with TWF... even with monk weapons.

Now I looked into my backup of FAQs and I only find:

"There's no such thing as a monk making an off-hand unarmed attack, because monks are already using pretty much their whole bodies for unarmed combat. For unarmed monks, the flurry of blows ability replaces off-hand unarmed attacks". (FAQ 3.0)

That doesn't say that is replaces 2WF or off-hand armed attacks.

However it's 3.0 FAQ not 3.5, in which I couldn't find anything.

 

[Li Shenron]

No.

You must decide to use the full attack action before making any attacks for the round and more specifically which full attack action.

...

I know many people who play this wrong.

Either I wasn't clear enough with my previous post, or you are saying that everyone is playing this wrong.

I meant that when you flurry, you are adding you extra attack(s) from flurry over your normal BAB routine. That is, for example:

@level 7: BAB +5 -> flurry +4/+4
@level 8: BAB +6/+1 -> flurry +5/+5/+0

If you read the description, it says that flurry ADDS one (and later 2) extra attack to the routine, and gives a penalty to all attacks of the routine.

At level 8, without flurry you are already making full-attack, but that does not prevent you use flurry just because flurry "uses a full attack"... In this sense, flurry is applied "on top" of the normal full attack (although in levels up to 7th without flurry a normal attack action is enough). It is NOT a separate special full round action.

 

[AGGEMAM]

When you make a full attack action you must decide which attacks you wish to make for that round. You don't appoint target of those until you actually attack though.

Also there is a balance issue. A monk making 3 attacks per round at 1st level might be a bit excessive to say the least. That would make it the fighting machine it was never meant or intended to be.

 

[Li Shenron]

When you make a full attack action you must decide which attacks you wish to make for that round. You don't appoint target of those until you actually attack though.

This fact about deciding the FAA at beginning of the round is fine for me, but has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

Also there is a balance issue. A monk making 3 attacks per round at 1st level might be a bit excessive to say the least. That would make it the fighting machine it was never meant or intended to be.

A monk making 3 attacks per round at 1st level makes them at -4/-4/-4 if he has the 2WF feat, which is not exactly a fighting machine.

You may argue about that later, when the flurry penalty drops to 0; but when it does so, to use a special monk weapon for an off-hand attack or the second end of quarterstaff for an extra attack means (1) to take a further -2 to ALL the attacks (if you have spent a feat on 2WF) and (2) use the lower staff damage instead of the better unarmed damage.

 

[Oscar carramiñana]

The monk don't have off hand when use unarmed strikes Sorry.

 

[Li Shenron]

The monk don't have off hand when use unarmed strikes Sorry.

That's true, but the current question is about using off-hands attacks with flurry of blows with special monk weapons, not off-hands attacks with flurry of blows with unarmed strikes.