D&D (2024) Does WotC view the Monk class as overtuned from their perspective?

[Mistwell]

The OP provides a more reasonable explanation.

If you crunch the numbers on even the most rudimentary level, you immediately realize in no way can they do everything those other classes can do, even a little. Even with triple the Ki they don't keep up, much less with the very limited Ki they get. Their damage output at mid to higher levels simply cannot possible achieve what the other melee classes achieve.

I really do honestly think this comes from someone's playtest bad experience.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If you crunch the numbers on even the most rudimentary level, you immediately realize in no way can they do everything those other classes can do, even a little. Even with triple the Ki they don't keep up, much less with the very limited Ki they get. Their damage output at mid to higher levels simply cannot possible achieve what the other melee classes achieve.

I really do honestly think this comes from someone's playtest bad experience.

Nope. Stun is valued as equivalent to a certain amount of damage, which is almost certainly more than a level 1 spell or a use of flurry of blows.

How much DPR they dish out isn’t especially relevant if their big gun isn’t damage.

The monk is only significantly underpowered in games with no short rests, and in analysis by people who value DPR and nova damage totals above anything else.

I’m not sure I buy that most players even see the monk as a weak class.

 

[FallenRX]

The lead designers are in their mid 50s right.

That means their main formatitive years of D&D would have been in 2e and early 3e.

So it makes sense that their value of, speed, good unarmored AC, not needing weapons, lower barrier of optimization, and power based of rolling good stats is high.

most of these designers are 4e designers tbh.

I think they value things quite similar to that then anything else

 

[FallenRX]

I seriously think there is a designer who had a monk player stun-lock their Big Bad Guy and freaked out about it claiming they were overpowered.

They're badly underpowered but WOTC seems to act like they're overpowered. I can't think of another explanation.

This is one of those things where, people look at numbers or chances, but a lot of people, espeically in casual circles feel this way about monk.

Like i feel their is just a huge disconnect from the general audience and enthusiasts about certain featurse even though the general audience reflect closer to how most people play 5e.

 

[Horwath]

Unarmed defense is worth about as light armor proficiency, yeah you can get higher AC early on, but you cannot utilize special/magical armor. So call it a wash.

Unarmed strike(without later increase in power) is worth as a single martial weapon proficiency as it gives you Bonus action attack. without it, it would be in line with Druidic/thief cant/extra tool proficiency.
Like proficiency in Eberrons double bladed scimitar

so monk in total gets at 1st level:
light armor proficiency
single Martial weapon proficiency
2 skills
1 tool

add that with d8 HD, and it's horrible 1st level.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

If forum oeople would design the monk we'd had a very overpowered class.

I think we need something in the middle.

I think the OP is right. The nova potential of the 5e monk, just by burning through stunning strike until it works paired with a differen character that can then whack on the helpless enemy is potetially problematic.

Now, with stunning strike nerfed to 1 per turn (like paladin smite) the monk now can actually be buffed quite some bit to be a more balanced class.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You forgot fighting style twf, as monks add their damage to offhand attaks.

 

[James Gasik]

You see, that's where I disagree, because I am sure they have specific mathematical formulas for figuring out the value of any AC or damage ability.

Crawford has admitted, however, that AC and accuracy aren't things they look at to determine CR. It's all just damage (and virtual damage) vs. hit points.

 

[Minigiant]

most of these designers are 4e designers tbh.

I think they value things quite similar to that then anything else

5e is designed more like 2e than 4e. And is moving more to 2e.

So strong things in 2e might be overvalued.

 

[Charlaquin]

Martial weapons usually get their bonus damage from Strength, not Dexterity.

Not shortswords or scimitars, which have the same damage die and ability to attack twice as a monk’s martial arts.

That's, arguably, the core Level 1 Feature in terms of what makes a Monk different: dump Strength, pump Dex.

So, the same ability every character with martial weapon proficiency has.