Does your campaign have magic shops?

[Tonguez]

Once you remove the profit-motive and the pursuit of money from the field of human calculation, you've not simply made a "fantasy" world. You've made an unbelievable one.

I was watching 'Dinotopia' (the series) on TV this morning - that is a fantasy world in which the profit-motive and the pursuit of money has been removed

 

[The Goblin King]

You know, I think I am going to put a magical Wal-Mart in my world. It is in fact an actual Wal-Mart. Big glowing sign and everything. There seems to be one of these on every island but there is in reality only one Wal-Mart. It exists extradimensionally so all the storefronts lead to the same place. It is gigantic. The sales floor is at least the size of a small town and thats just the first level. No one knows exactly how many floors it has but the elevator operating golem always seem to know exactly which floor you want to go to. It takes an army of sales-beings to staff Wal-Mart which is of course open 24 hours a day all year round. Anything can be bought or sold here but you will usually need to find an associate who knows exactly where something is or you could be looking for a very very long time. Shoplifting is strongly discouraged. Unless you were an epic rogue you wouldn't make it 5 feet out the door before you were cut down. Oh, and those rumors about people getting lost in the lower sub-levels and not being able to find the way out are entirely false. If they never escaped then how did they tell the story?

Heh, I am only half-joking. I am planning on running an anime-influenced campaign so a magic shop that was part Wal-Mart, part Sigil, and part Warehouse 23 would fit right in.

 

[painandgreed]

Back a few pages, AI did a break down of the various rules to show the availability of magic items. Thank you for that as it seems like something I'd do. I'll probalby go back and read it again for designing my world. It falls flat in one main instance however, that it seems to have more thought put into it than the designers of the game ever did. My appologies to any game designers here, but when such examination is put to the D&D rules for anythign other than combat, it breaks down pretty quickly and can even become self-contradictory. Economics in case point. Price of magic items especially. Do a little figureing or look at real world examples of the wealth that nobles had at the time and it becomes pretty obvious that such nobles could purchase just about any magic item they wanted (especially in a gold economy where such solvent currency isn't in short supply). This would most likely cause a much greater demand for such things than could be supplied and thus drive up the market price to more than double cost price as in the book. Blah. Blah. Blah. (If anybody really wants to hear more I could start a thread on fantasy world economics.)

Whether magic shops themselves are stupid or not isn't the case. It would all depend on what sort of campaign one is trying to play. Low magic "King Arthur" campaigns where such item are only given out by special NPCs are going to be different from "Jhereg" style campaign where every noble and rouge not only knows where to buy things like soul sucking weapons but has their favorite makers of said items. Said items may be part of game balance but that's all going to be arranged by the DM anyway. I think we should stick to how it's handled in individual campaigns so we might be able to pick up on some good ideas. My $.02.

PS: Goblin King - I like the idea of the multi-dimentional store. How long before players realize what it is and make friends with the workers there and can leave out different doors than the one they came in to use it as transportation. Maybe that's just another service the store will provide at a price.

 

[Slife]

If the store's big enough, why not have quests take place in it, or have a lost civilization hidden inside it? Throw in some stuff from Unseen U's library and there you have it.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I don't have magic shops IMC. Okay, there might be alchemists who stock things like healing potions or spell reagents, but you're not going to find places where you can get a +5 sword off the shelf. There are item crafters around, but you have to find them and get works done on commission. Finding these people can be easy (if they're famous and you want something relatively straightforward done) or hard (if what you want has an obscure prereq).

That said, if a player wants an item for their PC, and it looks reasonable enough, I'll also just say they can have it: deduct the gp, and write the new item down on the character sheet. Playing out the process of getting items crafted simply doesn't strike any of us as a great way of using our gaming session time. We're here to do adventuring: going into dungeons, smiting monsters for great justice, rescuing innocents from vile demons, arguing over whether the paladin should kill the orc babies, and the rest of it. You know, the fun stuff.

Read my mind too.

Once you remove the profit-motive and the pursuit of money from the field of human calculation, you've not simply made a "fantasy" world. You've made an unbelievable one.

I was watching 'Dinotopia' (the series) on TV this morning - that is a fantasy world in which the profit-motive and the pursuit of money has been removed

Well, and the fact that it's impractical for a civilization to not have currency...
it's a logistical thing.

 

[Sammael]

I guess option (3) is the closest to what I have IMC. It's set int he FR, so there are Thayan enclaves that sell minor magic items set up in various cities. Furthermore, every major city has a spellcaster or two who is willing to craft items. Add to that the fact that temples sell magic items to their faithful, and that pretty much ANYTHING can be acquired in metropolises such as Waterdeep, Athkatla, or Silverymoon.

I only enforce roleplaying magic item acquisitions at lower character levels (up to 6th, I'd say). Beyond that, I assume that characters are known/ powerful/ wealthy/ resourceful enough that they can easily find what they want, and taking three hours to buy an item would be a waste of game time.

 

[random user]

No one has given me a convincing enough case I can present to my players yet. As I've said elsewhere in the thread, I actually do dislike having magical shops -- not because it loses the charm of D&D, but because then my players focus on *what they want* and not *what they have*.

To me, that's my real concern. Now, I think some amount of expectation and desire is good; but when they get a +1 longsword or other minor magic item, instead of being happy with it, they start thinking about what they might be able to trade it for.

 

[Sammael]

A question, random user: why isn't it alright for the players to *want* certain magic items for their characters? How is it different from wanting to take a particular feat, or ranks in a skill, or a prestige class?

 

[random user]

A question, random user: why isn't it alright for the players to *want* certain magic items for their characters? How is it different from wanting to take a particular feat, or ranks in a skill, or a prestige class?

Sorry, I realized that I didn't explain that well enough right after I posted, and did an edit.

Basically, I think that some amount of desire is good; it's what motivates the characters. So if my player hears about an special weapon in some crypt and wants to explore it, or something similar, I'm all for that.

But I think the scale has tipped too much when my player starts looking at all his items, and starts trying to figure out what he could have instead, and he's never happy with what he has.

With feats, levels, etc. the player knows they are coming pro forma, so they can savor their current status and be content that "when it comes, it will come." Nothing they do aside from accruing xp will affect that.

With items, the players think the items will never come, or come more slowly if they don't take a guiding hand in it. They are rarely content with what they have; even when they buy a new toy, they are then wondering how long they need to use it before they can turn it in for something even shinier.


It's just a matter of degree.

Sorry, another edit as I think of it. The other thing is that their desire for change is often for incremental changes. If someone wants to swap a +2 belt of strength for a +2 neck of wisdom (and pay a commission if necessary), I have two options:

1. I can simply allow them to find one without problem, in which case the treasure I place is seen as interchangable and non-binding and basically just money in a different form

2. I can make them quest / roleplay / whatever, which is kind of silly to make every single transaction to do, especially for something so minor.

(Note that if I say that the item can't be traded here, in essence that's just a "quest" to find that transaction in a different city, or to find someone who will make it on commission etc)

If a magic shop hadn't existed, instead of giving the belt of strength to the cleric and knowing that he could probably just swap it out for something else later, they would have just given it to the fighter and be done with it. (To clarify, I'm sure the cleric in this hypothetical example would allow the fighter to use the belt until he managed to trade it.)

This is also an example of how my players focus on what they want (the neck of wis +2 , or a ring of prot +1, etc etc) instead of being happy with what they have (the +2 belt of str).

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

No.