D&D 5E Don't Throw 5e Away Because of Hasbro

[UngainlyTitan]

We don't actually need them. They want us to think they need them so we keep giving them money, lay back and don't hold them accountable ever again.

You do not need them but they are kind of inevitable feature of the current system.

 

[Art Waring]

I'm not saying RPGs would die.

I'm saying someone has to keep flooding the Internet and stores with ads, business partnerships, and doing the mass community engagement or the fanbase will shrink as incoming fans will slow.

And if that happens, the third parties and independent creators will slow down drastically as the revenue will likely shrink. The profit of some products are not great.

So if we abandon Hasbro, we have to embrace someone else. Or all this shrinks.

And we must not be shocked if the new chosen one or ones turn into monsters as well.

I do get what you are saying, but all of these theories hinge on the assumption that the industry has some kind of unlimited growth potential, that's just not the case. We may have already hit peak dnd, we won't know until we see a decline (like during the OGL debacle, but long term).

There is a hard ceiling on the industry because is it extremely niche. If the industry shrinks, that might be a good thing, as it gives other games a chance to shine.

 

[Minigiant]

This isn't a reasonable argument, because it's not supported by history, and further, it presupposes that pure maximalism, i.e. the largest number of people playing TT RPGs, at absolutely any cost, is the best thing for the TT RPG industry, and I don't think you've made that case. If we lose 10m of the 30m people playing D&D because they're only interested in D&D, and D&D turns rubbish or whatever, or WotC just stops making it (which I think it is sadly more plausible than it should be), well, that's not a real loss to TT RPGs. FLGSes are already not being supported by D&D for the most part, as far as I know anyway.

Depending on who stops playing, shrinkage is not necessarily a particularly bad thing, to be clear - I don't mean that in an elitist way, but some people will just never be interested in another TT RPG, not because D&D is so great (it's a pretty medium-quality crunch-heavy TT RPG with currently exceptional first and third party support, rather than anything else), but because they're interested in the brand more than y'know, playing a role-playing game. If they stop being around it doesn't really impact other TT RPGs, only 5E and 3PPs who focused primarily on supporting 5E.

I'm not saying a bigger fanbase is better.

I'm saying that if a large percentage of fans throw Hasbro away, there will be a change in what 5e gets in the future from both WOTC and nonWOTC sources.

If you have everything you want, you are fine. But if you want a continuation of what we get or even more, then even more action is required. Because with the history we already have, RPGs without big money backing by either fans or corporations stagnate in content and offer the same stuff over and over slowly. If that's what you want, great. If we create a new boss who is the same as the old boss, old Minigiant won't be fooled that's for sure.

 

[Vaalingrade]

We don't need them.

We just need someone or someones to inject tens of millions into the industry.

Not really.

There's plenty of cottage industries that do just fine without Uncle Scrooge coming in and making it rain (for them and only them).

Not everything needs to be a bloated industry beholden to shareholders and with an ad in Times Square.

And we certainly don't need some company declaring themselves barrier maiden; insinuating that everything will come crashing down if they fail due to their own actions.

 

[Art Waring]

I'm not saying a bigger fanbase is better.

I'm saying that if a large percentage of fans throw Hasbro away, there will be a change in what 5e gets in the future from both WOTC and nonWOTC sources.

If you have everything you want, you are fine. But if you want a continuation of what we get or even more, then even more action is required. Because with the history we already have, RPGs without big money backing by either fans or corporations stagnate in content and offer the same stuff over and over slowly. If that's what you want, great. If we create a new boss who is the same as the old boss, old Minigiant won't be fooled that's for sure.

Ok, I am going to disagree with you on this...

I would need to see some kind of proof that the lack of corporate presence in the industry would lead to stagnation. At the moment, I would actually argue the opposite, that wotc has contributed to the rate of stagnation, as you either have to make 5e 3pp supplements as a small publisher or essentially forget trying to run a ttrpg business.

The d20 glut of the early 2000's should be evidence enough that a single company dominating the industry is really bad for the rest of the industry out there, and absolutely lead to stagnation within the industry. No one made content for unique games, everything was d20 or bust. Now when that bubble burst, the damage was catastrophic. LGS's and small publishers went out of business, because they were reliant on the biggest fish in the pond.

 

[Incenjucar]

Open Source is already a huge driver in the tech industry and art in general is as much iteration as inspiration. RPGs might start to resemble books, board games, and video games more, where they compete for publisher attention or stick with an indie release, become big for awhile, and then peter out over time, with an ever-growing backlog and a few big hits.... so like the 80s and 90s.

 

[mamba]

This is a pretty fragile argument.

It's true right now that buying 5E "isn't hurting anyone", but if Hasbro/WotC had gone ahead with the OGL 2.0 insanity, you wouldn't have been able to make that argument. It's sadly reasonably likely that Hasbro/WotC will make a decision just as bad or worse involving 5E/D&D in the next few years - probably involving the 3D VTT. If so, continuing to supply money to Hasbro/WotC (rather than merely 3PPs who made 5E material) would, in fact, be "hurting [someone]".

the argument is that 5e is bigger than whatever WotC produces and you can play 5e without any of their products, eg by using A5e, ToV or others - or if you already own them, without buying any new ones. This does not change just because WotC suddenly also has a VTT.

As to hurting someone, not buying something you would not have bought anyway is not hurting anyone. So the only scenario is me willingly entering their walled garden and abandoning the outside world. Not sure how often people that care about anything but WotC will do that

 

[Shardstone]

Games are only limited by one thing: advertising dollars. Thats it.

 

[Minigiant]

Ok, I am going to disagree with you on this...

I would need to see some kind of proof that the lack of corporate presence in the industry would lead to stagnation. At the moment, I would actually argue the opposite, that wotc has contributed to the rate of stagnation, as you either have to make 5e 3pp supplements as a small publisher or essentially forget trying to run a ttrpg business.

WOTC still does most of the advertising for the D&D space.

My argument is that if we drop Hasbro, someone else has to drop a fat stack of cash to keep the current state going.

And if we encourage that, we can't act shocked if they turn into greedy capitalists as well.

And if we don't encourage that, we can't be shocked if the D&Dverse shrinks and/or slows.

 

[Retreater]

WOTC still does most of the advertising for the D&D space.

My argument is that if we drop Hasbro, someone else has to drop a fat stack of cash to keep the current state going.

And if we encourage that, we can't act shocked if they turn into greedy capitalists as well.

And if we don't encourage that, we can't be shocked if the D&Dverse shrinks and/or slows.

Right now, all that WotC money from D&D and Magic is being used to keep the rest of Hasbro from going belly up.
It would be better off without Hasbro.