[DRAGON #305] F-bomb dropped, Doc M fascinated.

[Olive]

I've found that U.S. Americans, in particular, are far more sensitive about swear words than any other nationality. I've spoken with a lot of people from a lot of countries and I can only ever remember Americans chastising me for using 'vulgar' language. Swedes, Icelanders, Norwegians, Germans, French, Italian, Brazilian, Canadians... I can't remember any people from those countries getting up in arms over a little word.

i agree, but at the same time, this isn't true of all americans.

but i've never met an irish person who didn't swear like a trooper.

 

[Henry]

I've found that U.S. Americans, in particular, are far more sensitive about swear words than any other nationality.

On the other hand, there are "swear words" in other nations that have a similar effect among that nations populace. I don't want to repeat most of them here for fear offending anyone, but there are words which have no meaning to americans, but have much stronger meanings abroad.

A tamer example: The debut of Austin Powers: The Spy who Shagged me. According to CNN, in several movie theatres in England, the title was changed to just "Austin Powers 2" - and it wasn't just because it was easier to fit on the marquee; it was also because some audiences had an objection to the term "shag." Where I live, Shagging has nothing to do with intimate relations - it's a type of fairly clean dancing!

And don't get me started on the "W" word. I remember a rather humorous interview with Renee O'Connor of the Xena TV series - she didn't realize that some of her fellow cast members objected so strongly to her use of that word.

And of course, Morrus would likely think nothing of lighting up a fag after dinner. But try telling that to an American, and see the reaction.

It's not just us Yanks - every tribe has its own list of naughty words.

 

[DDK]

Oops

In referencing Olive's post above, I was intending on illustrating that in Australia, swear words don't seem to be as big a deal as in America. I just forgot to write that...

And yeah, the 'W' word (took me a while to figure out which word you meant!) could be said to have different effects but even then, here, it's no big deal. In fact, we have a mighty fine tradition of altering the school roll for the first day back or with a new teacher (especially subs... smart subs and teachers learn quickly to avoid these) to include the infamous Wayne Kerr

Maybe it's just an Aussie thing but it seems to me that we're just more... I don't know... relaxed about the whole thing. There are still your conservative peeps who whinge, beatch and complain but they seem to be in a minority, and even then are certainly not isolated within any particular social group. I've hung with millionaires who swear heartily and paupers who would wash yer mouth out if you even dared say a swear word.

But on the whole, we just don't give a

 

[DDK]

The Origin of the Swear Word

Ok, I did a little search but unfortunately I couldn't find the essay I once read detailing the history of swearing. So what I'm about to say is based off of memory from what I read in that essay. Whether entirely true or not, is up for debate, however I do recall that the essay was written by a linguistics professor, so...

Essentially, the concept of there being 'bad' words, comes from elitism. It's a form of prejudice; it is the method used by the educated elite to discern themselves from a commoner and thus exclude commoners from their ranks.

During the renaissance, it was believed that because of the upward social mobility of artists and their ilk, that there needed to be some way to discern someone of money and someone of class, the two not necessarily being one in the minds of the elite.

So although you could schwing with the 'in' crowd, should you use a word that was considered 'uncouth', whether by lapsus lingua or choice, you would be ostracized by your former peers for being a lesser being than they.

Therefore although some words carry connotations of racism and sexism, and are therefore not to be used due to simple respect for those who the word targets, there are plenty of swear words whose origin is among the 'common' people and whose negative connotation has been earned by being little more than a method of segregation and therefore prejudice.

Why people continue to support this is, in my not so humble opinion, ing ridiculous.

In the words of one person whose essay I *did* manage to find:

Originally spoken by Sickopath
"If you tried to segregate a group of_ people using the same lack of reason you used to segregate these words, you'd be called a racist and compared to Hitler. But now because the Word Nazis won the war, the entire planet is expected to speak a certain way."

 

[MerricB]

I'm an Australian, Fourecks.

I'm greatly offended by needless profanities. I'm also offended that you imply that I'm inferior because of it.

That said, I'm also a big fan of George R.R. Martin's works, and am greatly looking forward to getting this issue of Dragon.

To Dragon's editors I say: make the decisions you are happy with, and live with the results of those decisions.

Cheers!

 

[DDK]

I'm an Australian, Fourecks.

I thought you were born and raised in the UK?

I'm greatly offended by needless profanities.

Why?

You see... there is no reasonable answer you can give. It's not logical. It's just you saying it's offensive because... because... because it just is!

 

[jdavis]

Folks, come on. Be reasonable. Read the posts before posting this silly "it is just one word" nonsense. That point has been addressed enough times.

SD

Well the title of the thread is "F-bomb dropped" seems people are just keeping with the origional topic of the thread. Of course by this time the thread is getting pretty thin.

 

[jgbrowning]

You see... there is no reasonable answer you can give. It's not logical. It's just you saying it's offensive because... because... because it just is!

Its offensive to him for the same reason its not offensive to you.


joe b.

 

[d'Anconia]

That's enough (and not just SD -- yours just happens to be a handy example). Express your opinion, but don't attack each other. The thread will close if I feel like attacks are continuing.

Nevermind.

You know what, if people want to be offended, they'll find something offensive. That's what we do.

Ok, I'm pretty much a lurker here, and I hope that doesn't take anything away from the statements I'm about to make. A page after Eric states that people should not be attacking each other, Dinkeldog, a moderator no less, proceeds to explain to the world is that the reason some people have been offended by this Dragon Magazine's inclusion of the F-world is because they want to be offended by something. IMO, that sounds dangerously close to a personal attack, and is the kind of action that I would hope moderators here would be able to rise above, if merely to set an example to the members here. If I'm not allowed to come on here and make personal attacks against people who happen to hold a different point of view than me, then why should a moderator, a senior member of this community, be able to. To resort to "if people want to be offended, they'll find something offensive" only serves to belittle your, IMO valid, arguments on this subject. It does not further any of your arguments about why the inclusion of the f-word is acceptable in this instance, it just basically states that the people who disagree with you are mindless idiots, whose arguements are infantile and utterly devoid of any rational thought. And that, I do not think, should ever be acceptable.

I do not intend for this post to be a personal attack upon anyone. I was just reading through this thread, and felt like something needed to be said about this. Sorry if I've upset anyone.

d'Anconia

 

[WizarDru]

Ok, I'm pretty much a lurker here, and I hope that doesn't take anything away from the statements I'm about to make. A page after Eric states that people should not be attacking each other, Dinkeldog, a moderator no less, proceeds to explain to the world is that the reason some people have been offended by this Dragon Magazine's inclusion of the F-world is because they want to be offended by something. IMO, that sounds dangerously close to a personal attack, and is the kind of action that I would hope moderators here would be able to rise above, if merely to set an example to the members here.

There is a significant differnce between someone specifically calling someone else an idiot, and another person saying some people just want to find a reason to be offended (and including himself in the group). Just because he's a moderator doesn't mean he's not allowed to have an opinion. You're certainly encouraged to point out if you think that he's skirting the line, however. Eric was more trying to diffuse the thread from degenerating into name-calling.