[DRAGON #305] F-bomb dropped, Doc M fascinated.

[Buttercup]

If I were a parent, I'd be a bit upset, as before this I'd never thought of DRAGON as something I'd have to read-through before handing off to a twelve year old.

I imagine most parents would feel the same way (I'm not one either) but I can tell you that if their kids read *any* novels written for teens, they see fine old anglo-saxon words for bodily functions and intimate behaviors all the time. Not to mention what they hear in the lunchroom at school.

I have to admit that this whole subject honestly perplexes me. They're just words. I'd rather have my teen know those words but be a nice person than have a clean mouth but be a bully. It's the actions that should matter. (IMO, naturally.)

 

[Samnell]

I've read most of this thread and I comprehend that some people are upset by the use of the f-word in Dragon. I do not understand why. Perhaps this is because I have never taken word tabboos seriously.

Yes, I think that is it. I mean, it's an awfully silly thing to be upset about. I could understand someone being upset about claims that people of a certain race were inferior or the use of racial slurs. But come on, naughty words for bodily functions? This makes no sense. It gets even sillier when you invent surrogate words. Everyone knows what you mean, it's not like we've all been stricken dumb by the sudden use of euphemism. If you're comfortable with the euphemisms for the same, then you have no rational grounds to be upset over the use of the real thing.

 

[Mark Chance]

Not exactly...

I imagine most parents would feel the same way (I'm not one either) but I can tell you that if their kids read *any* novels written for teens, they see fine old anglo-saxon words for bodily functions and intimate behaviors all the time.

I've read many novels written for teens in recent years, what being a middle school English teacher and all. Most have had very little in the way of foul language.

Not to mention what they hear in the lunchroom at school.

Specious line of reasoning: a behavior is common; therefore, it is acceptable.

I have to admit that this whole subject honestly perplexes me. They're just words. I'd rather have my teen...

Says the person who is not a parent.

...know those words but be a nice person than have a clean mouth but be a bully.

The issue isn't knowing the words. It is using them. And it is much more likely that the bully is the one using them. The nice person doesn't because s/he is, well, nice.

It's the actions that should matter. (IMO, naturally.)

Speaking is an action.

But, back on topic, Dragon seems to have blown it. Bad editorial decision this is. I'd be curious to see the editors' justification/rationale.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I'm pretty widely read -- particularly in classic fantasy and science fiction -- but ...

Who the heck is George R. R. Martin?

Any literary relation to J. R. R. Tolkien?

 

[robaustin]

I don't see WHY Dragon has fiction in it in the first place. Give me 4 or 6 extra pages of material I can use for my campaign! I never read the fiction anyway.

I had never heard of this George R. R. Martin until now either....

 

[Enforcer]

You know, I just wrote a lengthy response to the Sigil, and I just decided that it's not worth it, and deleted it. I just hope that he and people like him stop reading Dragon, so that more good fiction graces its pages without censorship lessening the story.

That being said, more crunchy bits in lieu of any fiction would be welcome, but if I have to have fiction in Dragon, it may as well be good. Martin is damn good. Sigil, I hope you check out A Game of Thrones from your public library and at least give it a chance. You've got nothing to lose that way.

Oh, and since you gave me permission: you're a prude. Feel free to tell me that I promote the debasement of America, or whatever.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

I was exceedingly annoyed at Dragon's inclusion of "Vile" (read: puerile) material in #300. This just tells me that my worst fears have been confirmed - Dragon has decided to abandon all pretense of being anything other than a schlock, pandering, standardless rag.

I am a bit surprised this piece of fiction upset you more then that issue. Especially since they made it quite clear they (Dragon) handled that issue maturely and saw no problem with the direction dragon was going.

I cancelled my subscription then.

No amount of rhetoric is going to make a difference, but if it bothers enough people to stop buying the magazine.. then it might.

On this specific issue at hand- I like GRRM. I don't have a problem with profanity in adult literature. But, I agree with you- I would rather not see it in Dragon. However- I won't be seeing it so it is not a problem.

SD

 

[techno]

It is unfortunate that some D&D products seem to be pushing the boundaries of decency lately. This is just one more sad example...

 

[jgbrowning]

I've read most of this thread and I comprehend that some people are upset by the use of the f-word in Dragon. I do not understand why. Perhaps this is because I have never taken word tabboos seriously.

Yes, I think that is it. I mean, it's an awfully silly thing to be upset about. I could understand someone being upset about claims that people of a certain race were inferior or the use of racial slurs. But come on, naughty words for bodily functions? This makes no sense. It gets even sillier when you invent surrogate words. Everyone knows what you mean, it's not like we've all been stricken dumb by the sudden use of euphemism. If you're comfortable with the euphemisms for the same, then you have no rational grounds to be upset over the use of the real thing.

I'm not quite certain of what your saying. Is the F word no big deal or is it important, so important that the word must be in there to maintain "artistic integrity."

If its commonplace it shouldn't be a big deal to replace it. If its important, its important because of its vulgar qualities. I'm not sure if both can exist at the same time.

joe b.

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

I Have A Question

What I want to know, is there a double standard here on ENWorld? It would appear that a large percentage of the board likes Martin and his work, particularly “A Song of Ice and Fire”. Why can’t such language be used here on the boards? Sepulchrave’s eminently awesome story hour has edited out the F bomb. I think the story hour would be better if It was left in.

Please don’t give me the fictitious “Eric’s Grandma” argument. We know even Eric Noah likes Martin. So why can’t such language be used on the boards? Tell me. The editors of Dragon know that the largest target audience they’re going for is in their twenty’s and thirty’s. It’s their main defense against those who didn’t like issue 300, well that and It’s everywhere anyway so why not here. I would say that ENWorld is like that as well. The Book of Vile Darkness has enjoyed good sales and seen use in many a game.

So why? Why can’t such language be used on ENWorld?

Son of Thunder