Re: Crystal!
Son_of_Thunder said:
From my point of view, ENWorld's taking a higher moral ground where it's members can swear in life, read it in books but go to ENWorld and NO, that's inviolate.
I guess It'll still be a mystery to me.
Because not everyone swears in real life, or swears to the same degree, or agrees on what swear words are offensive. As Henry said,
profanity creates barriers.
I want engaging conversations with fellow D&D enthusiasts. If, in the middle of a conversation, someone says "*&^%*&*! You're just a *(*&#$(* *(#($ (*#$" as part of his retort, I'm not terribly interested in continuing a conversation with him. ENWorld has a diverse set of viewers covering some diverse age ranges (12-60+, I think). Isn't it better to be inclusive, rather than exclusive? There are other places to go have those uncensored discussions. Ask yourself this: if there are other RPG discussion forums, what makes ENWorld so popular? The answer, to me, is the moderation. Relatively on-topic, relatively intelligent discourse between like-minded individuals who all share a common respect for each other and the topic at hand.
Ahem.
Now, then...all that said, let me discuss my take on the subject at hand. It IS a tempest in a teapot, AFAIC. When I was 12, I was stealing copies of Playboy and Penthouse from my brother. I knew all the cursewords in question, had heard and seen them in use, and amongst my peers (but not adults) used them frequently [sometimes merely to prove that we could, as is the way of youth]. I have a pretty good idea that the same applied for my father, from discussions we've had. I expect that when my son is 12, he'll probably be doing the same thing, too.
I can understand that The Sigil doesn't approve of the use of certain language within Dragon. I don't find that unreasonable, even though I personally disagree. I no longer tend to think of Dragon as a 'all-ages' magazine, especially given that it's dedicated to a game which is chiefly about the systematic visiting of violence upon monsters and other folk. I mean, let's be honest here, this isn't a magazine about Scrabble. Further, at 12, I had ready access to magazines and books that used such language, sometimes for good and sometimes merely for titillation. Martin is hardly unique in this regard. A 12-year old could run out and buy Maxim, GQ or Sports Illustrated, and easily see some questionable content. That doesn't necessarily make it right, but it would silly to ignore this fact.
Different authors have different reasons for it's usage, and in "Song of Ice and Fire", it's usually part of the color of a specific character's language. He doesn't curse with impunity, but certain characters speak certain ways, and some, such as the character of Tyrion, often flavor his language with vulgarities. The characters in the Novella are the Ironborn, being something like the Vikings...a very earthy, harsh folk, many of whom are pirates or sailors, and both brutal, gruff and uneducated. They speak appropriately.
Comparing works prior to the late '60s/early '70s isn't really fair, as most of these works weren't able to get such words published at that time. Consider further, that most fantasy/sci-fi works were published in magazines first (such as Norton, Asimov, Bradbury, Niven, and so forth), it should come as no suprise. Instead, such authors made up fake curses and euphemisms that sound trite today, at best, and insulting at worst. I mean, when I was 12, I thought "Tanj it!" sounded foolish....the same way I thought the phrase "frell" sounded foolish on Farscape. It was a terribly unclever way to skirt censorship...with a "*wink*wink*nudge*nudge* we know what he
really meant!" attitude. I wasn't that dumb then, and neither were any of my friends.
Martin's words are not thrown in huge letters at the top of a page, they're twelve pages into the story. If a young reader is mature enough and patient enough to get that far, quite honestly he's probably mature enough to handle the word, IMHO. Most likely, he's already aware of it. While I respect The Sigil's decision, I personally think it's silly to remove this content from Dragon. Despite some folks never having heard of him, he is an extremely popular author who's been around for some time, and is currently the author of the best-selling fantasy series in print, short of the seminal work of the genre by Tolkien. He's a good author and excellent editor.
Does this mean then that I feel that anything's a go for my kids? Certainly not. Will I let them read "Dragon" with impunity? When they're old enough, maybe I will. But just as I choose what videos and games are appropriate now, I'll choose which web content and books are appropriate then. Hopefully, I'll make choices as well as my parents did with me. They were just happy that I was reading, even it was material they didn't gibe as much with. I hope to do the same for my kids. I would like, for example, to get the T-shirt with a picture of d20 that has rolled a '1', and a particular curse word at the bottom...but I don't. Because if I wore it, my daughter would read it, and I don't want hear reading that word. Yet. I can't control her life 24/7, and wouldn't want to try...but I hope that I'll direct her development enough to know what's appropriate and when. So when she sees such words in Dragon or elsewhere, she'll react the same way that I did....without much fuss.
I agree that saying that "It's just words" or "the words are only vulgar if we let them be" misses the point. Some words simply cannot be divorced from their emotional meaning. I understand this, and part of what Sigil is saying is that you can't, shouldn't and ultimately won't. If I run up and down the halls of my office yelling epithets, I can't know what each person's reaction will be. In the cold moment of intellectualism, perhaps you might be able to do so...but if I turn a page and come
At the end of the day, this was a calculated risk for Dragon, and I think it was a wise one. Sales-wise, I bet this issue will sell well, and serve as a double-exposure for Martin and the new D&D. I'm sorry if it costs them some precious readers (and all readers are precious), but I think it was a good decision. All of this, naturally, is IMHO.
