Dragon 365 - Artificer

[Andor]

Ho-lee crap. Something just occurred to me.

Gven many powers facilitate off a ranged weapon, the artificer as written makes for a great impromptu Arcane Archer class. Although less "Sniper" and more Gatlin Gunner; more of an "Arcane Commando". The image of a dwarf with a big crossbow kicking in the door and laying down magic-infused cover fire is very, very attractive.

For that matter, it functions well as a more gadget-focused Batman class, a "James Bond with more toys".

(I switched this post from page 2 so folks would see it)

Heh. I already wrote up an Arcane Archer Prestige Path for them and fired it off as playtest feedback.

 

[Andor]

Equivalent to the wizard, except better in every way. A wizard can only change his spellbook suite when he levels up, and then only to a limited extent. Is this artificer going to be able to add an arbitrarily large number of gadgets to his tech manual? What's going to stop him from purpose-building a plausibly powerful gadget that just happens to be exactly what he needs for a given combat or noncombat situation? Maybe it costs gold... well, all right- how do you balance it? Nobody else can simply buy new powers, particularly ones they can acquire without losing any of their current abilities.

You misunderstood. It's exactly equivilent to the wizards spellbook. The wizard gets to pick his daily powers by means of choosing which spell to memorize from a short list of spells he has available in his book. The artificer gets to pick his daily powers by building an arcane widget from a short list of available schemata. It's the same thing with different fluff. Perhaps you should try breathing into a paperbag until the hyperventilation passes?

 

[Ximenes088]

In other words his abilty to create different items lets him select different powers for each encounter when he needs to, not build up a stack of encounter or daily powers.

...does not sound to be...

You misunderstood. It's exactly equivilent to the wizards spellbook.

The wizard cannot swap dailies/utilities between encounters. If you're going to recommend a tweak, I suggest you be careful about the terminology you use if you want to be understood correctly- selecting "different powers for each encounter" is not the same thing as "changing daily and utility powers only, only an extended rest, and only from a limited subset of the available powers".

 

[Andor]

...does not sound to be...



The wizard cannot swap dailies/utilities between encounters. If you're going to recommend a tweak, I suggest you be careful about the terminology you use if you want to be understood correctly- selecting "different powers for each encounter" is not the same thing as "changing daily and utility powers only, only an extended rest, and only from a limited subset of the available powers".

True, but I didn't present a fleshed out system, merely the way it could be done. You'll also note I said 'At a certain interval' since you could easily balance it around switching daily powers after an extended rest ala the Wizard or swapping an encounter power after a short rest to be different.

You could also do something like:

Temporary Enchantment Artificer Utility 6
Encounter * Short Rest, Weapon or Implement
With a few moments you can prepare an ally's weapon for the fight ahead.

Until the end of the next encounter one weapon or implement of your choice is considered to have the Fire, Cold, Lightning, or Force keywords and deals damage of that type. You must handle the object to imbue this effect.

 

[Scribble]

I'd have much preferred having the Artificer actually make the items while traveling or whatnot and then use them during combat, with some of the abilities - such as the ones that effect your missile weapon - staying as actual spells/powers. One of my friends labeled it as potentially a mix of Indiana Jones and Macguyver, which fits Eberron and how artificers are supposed to work perfectly. All and all, this is probably my favorite class shown so far - and the one that makes me sigh in frustration at 4e the most. I can only hope the "half finished" bit will get Wizards to lay off on the Powers and give us some crafted item goodness. A faint, hopeless hope, perhaps, but one nonetheless.

That's essentially what it's doing. It's just tied into the powers system.

The ones that utilize the weapons are powers the Artificer has imbued into or through his weapon. The rune inscribed part happened at the beginning of the day (as it says) after an extended rest. Others are unique items inscribed at the start of the day as well.

If your argument is just against the powers system, that's a valid viewpoint, but I'm not sure that this is the particular thread to make it.

 

[IanArgent]

Do it mechanically like the Wizard's spellbook. Possibly also allow utilities to be swapped after an extended rest.

However, not yet... Remember, we have only half the class right now - if you did it mechanically like the wizard's spellbook, the artificer as it stands woudn't have as many interesting choices. I hope that the final version has the same kind of flexibility as the wizard.

 

[Dalamar]

If there needs to be a mechanical distinction made to show that Artificers "craft" their powers, then just saying that an artificer can't use abilities that target allies on creatures that were not present during the last extended rest would settle that without affecting most games but still having that unique flavour.
Similarly, requiring that a weapon was present when the artificer took a short rest to show how the items were prepared to be used with the powers.

 

[Novem5er]

My biggest problem with the Artificer is that many of the powers indicate that he is enchanting his ally's equipment, instantaneously, and at range.


Mechanically, it matches what many other classes do, however, it doesn't feel like an artificer to me.

Thundering Armor, for example. From a range of 10, you give an ally a +1 to AC and also make an attack on an adjacent enemy.

Okay, very similar to the Cleric, who attacks a distant enemy, but also grants an ally some bonus. Got it. But I didn't know Artificers could enchant items from 50' feet away. I also didn't know they could enchant items instantaneously, over and over again.

I'm really okay with game mechanics being used to balance combat, characters, and roles, in sake of pure fluff. However, these kinds of powers just don't seem "artificer" to me.

Maybe I need a fluff change to the powers. Instead of waving a wand and instantly enchanting an ally's armor (from 50' away), maybe the Artificer can throw a globe of thunder at an ally? The globe hits the ally, encases him/her in a shield of thunder, and also makes an attack on an enemy. See, then the Artificer is "making" these globes and hurling them through the air... as opposed to waving a wand and instantly enchanting armor (from 50' away).

But... I see the mechanical problem with this. When does he actually make the globes? How many can he make at one time? Couldn't he then give a globe to someone else to throw? Could an Artificer throw a globe at the ground, producing an attack, but no AC bonus?

See, the Powers system is suddenly constricting options. Obviously it must do so in the name of balance, but I never really felt it until now.

I'll try to re-flavor the Thundering Armor power anyway. Let's keep everything the same, except for these modifications:

- Thunder Globes - the effect is now created by a globe of force that is hurled at an ally.

- Components - The globes are created during any rest, and the Artificer can create as many as are needed, given that he has his "components" on him.

-The globes still get Implement bonuses, but that is determines upon creation, not the attack. The Artificer uses his implement when creating the globe, and the effects carry over into the attack.

-The globes could also be tossed at the ground (targeting an open square). Thus, an Artificer can directly attack an enemy, but nobody would get the AC bonus.

-The globes cannot be shared. The globes are dormant until the Artificer completes the enchantment as he throws them.


What do you think?

 

[Deverash]

What if instead of changing daily spells after extended rests, they instead learned 2 encounter powers, and could swap them out after each short or extended rest? That might be more what he was looking for, and personally I think that'd be cool, without being overly powerful.

 

[Saurdaux]

Alternate Implement

Regarding the three hands problem, I'd like to see them use the artifices as their implement. Give them a few categories to specialize in like how a wizard can choose wand, orb, or staff. Maybe trap, device, and construct. Within each category, you could make any number of different kinds that have differing uses, but roughly equal potency. A trap might add an ongoing effect, a device could enhance the range or potency of an ability, and a construct could add an extra attack in addition to serving as the delivery mechanism for a spell.

Using Spike Wire as an example, you could use it with a bear trap that adds an additional slow effect, a launching device which gives it an increased area of effect, or a ram construct which makes a little charge attack on one target while affecting the area with the wire.

An Artificer could carry a number of different gadgets for different circumstances, providing a versatile bag of tricks. To balance it out, there could be a limit on how many they could carry, with some of the more potent artifices expending upon use (power drains, explodes, etc.), while others are permanent but less powerful.