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NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Dragon Compendium Table of Contents
- Thread starter GVDammerung
- Start date
JoeGKushner said:
I'll admit that I didn't know Dragon was delivered in a carton. I always assumed it came in an envelope, but I've never been a subscriber.
Back on topic, this compendium looks quite decent to me. I expect I'll pick up a copy. Although I used to read Dragon regularly many years ago (from about issue #60 through #100) I have no nostalgia for any of the mechanical AD&D articles -- I wasn't playing AD&D at that time. I used to read it for the other, more general articles, game reviews, etc. Now that I'm actually playing D&D and do have an interest in the mechanical stuff, this compendium looks like it could be good value.
JoeGKushner
Adventurer
I am a little surprised no one's complained that there's no Ares section here. "Whee's the Marvel Super Heroes stuff!" "Where's the Gamma World stuff!"
Maybe one day we'll see a Best of Ares section. Yeah, that's the ticket.
Maybe one day we'll see a Best of Ares section. Yeah, that's the ticket.
ShinHakkaider
Adventurer
BOZ said:wow, lots of ire in this thread for a book that anyone has yet to see... i wasn't super impressed with the ToC myself either, but i wasn't super de-pressed either.
D00d, it's the Internerd. If people werent complaining we'd be in Bizzarro world.
As for me, I'm pretty picky about what I buy, but Paizo impressed me with the Shackled City and Dungeon. So much so with Dungeon that last I actually subscribed to it.
I used to have a crate full of Dragon Mags back int the day that had to be chucked for space considerations (not after I got the Dragon CD Archive though) and havent picked up an issue in
a looooooooong time. I'm trusting Paizo with this one and having looked at the TOC I think that it's a book that will serve me well. I'm not one to complain and nitpick over something like this. My way of dealing with it is very simple: If I dont like it I dont buy it. If I'm that offended by some thing a product has or doesnt have then I send an email to the publisher or whoever.
Voicing displeasure, is one thing but there's a poster or two here that are really coming across poorly. My thing is this I try to treat people on the internerd as I would if I were speaking to them face to face, with a little respect at the least. Seriously guys, It's a BOOK. Either you like it or don't, either you'll buy it or you won't , but coming across like someone OWES you something and you being angry that you didnt get makes you seem like, well...a bit of a child.
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ShinHakkaider
Adventurer
Erik Mona said:
OWNED!!
Erik and Mike, I want to thank you again for interacting with this community so closely. It helps you a lot, in my mind.
I was really hoping for Sheen and the Sunset World articles in this one as well. As I said, I was surprised at the amount of crunch given Erik's comments about the direction he is taking Dragon, and the fact that many of the classic articles aren't crunch. On the other hand, I'm not sure how "generic" fluff would sell. If future volumes are more focused, then fluff makes more sense to the buyer. I'll make another request. I'll have to go home to look in my archives, but I think it was Collins that wrote some articles on non-standard castles/keeps/homes. Underground, in trees (maybe on that one) etc. that seemed like they would really be in a fantastic world. That would be great. (I'm sure I'll have to edit this post to get that right). Also, while pronuciation tables are nice (what does drow rhyme with?), I preferred the AKA article. No way the average person always describes a monster with its correct name. No way monsters are all known by the same name. That was an article that helped me a lot in the day.
I won't know if I'm buying this for sure or not until I hold it, but I do appreciate that it is coming out. There is a treasure trove of stuff there.
Oh yeah, bring back Richards style of ecology articles with the monster hunters, please (I'll ask almost every post I expect Erik to read - sorry).
I was really hoping for Sheen and the Sunset World articles in this one as well. As I said, I was surprised at the amount of crunch given Erik's comments about the direction he is taking Dragon, and the fact that many of the classic articles aren't crunch. On the other hand, I'm not sure how "generic" fluff would sell. If future volumes are more focused, then fluff makes more sense to the buyer. I'll make another request. I'll have to go home to look in my archives, but I think it was Collins that wrote some articles on non-standard castles/keeps/homes. Underground, in trees (maybe on that one) etc. that seemed like they would really be in a fantastic world. That would be great. (I'm sure I'll have to edit this post to get that right). Also, while pronuciation tables are nice (what does drow rhyme with?), I preferred the AKA article. No way the average person always describes a monster with its correct name. No way monsters are all known by the same name. That was an article that helped me a lot in the day.
I won't know if I'm buying this for sure or not until I hold it, but I do appreciate that it is coming out. There is a treasure trove of stuff there.
Oh yeah, bring back Richards style of ecology articles with the monster hunters, please (I'll ask almost every post I expect Erik to read - sorry).
BOZ
Creature Cataloguer
OK, I decided to go and do some research, both for those who had never seen it before, as well as for those who maybe didn't remember it as well as others. This post, in fact, contains a number of quotes from the actual article (thank you Dragon CD-rom archives!)
The witch "class" in the DMG is not a class at all; it is a suggested variant spell list, with a few suggestions on how to make a class out of the idea.
The witch class in Dragon Magazine #114 was a revision done by Bill Muhlhausen of an article that first appeared in #43.
In contrast to the DMG witch: "It must be noted that the witch is a very powerful spell-caster. It could conceivably be used as a player character on an experimental basis, but it works best as an NPC used to challenge parties of adventurers on a long-term basis. The class has been deliberately given extraordinary spellcasting powers, in terms of numbers of spells available and the power of individual spells; player-character witches may prove to be overwhelming, but NPC witches are thus. better able to challenge large groups of adventurers. The decidedly evil nature of the witch (as a rule) is also a point against its use as a player-character class."
Though based loosely on the wizardly classes, it is not intended as a subclass thereof, as it is something completely different. They can use both arcane and divine magic, and are actually more like druids than either class. They use nature-based magic, but also enchantments to manipulate humanoids. They gain new spells by sacrificing and praying to archfiends, which send their servants to teach the spells to the witch.
Yes, they make magical as well as alchemical items. At 3rd level they brew poisons and narcotics; at 4th they brew a "truth drug"; at 5th they brew love potions. At 6th level they make potions and scrolls. At 7th level, they make candles that have various effects (philter of love, protection from good/evil, truth drug, telepathy, curative, and curse). At 9th level they can use both arcane and divine scrolls; at 10th level they can acquire a familiar. At 12th level they can make wands and one-shot items. At 13th, they can make an ointment that allows a user to fly as the spell. At 15th, they can make a doll (voodoo doll eh?) that controls a living creature. At 16th, they can make rings, wondrous items, and other permanent items. At 17th, they use the spell fascination once per day. At 20th, they age at 1/10 rate for the rest of their lives. At 21st, they can use limited wish 1/month. At 22nd, they can shapechange once per day.
Specifics on their spell use...
Their list of available spells is as follows:
First level: Change self, Charm man I, Control vapor, Cure wounds, Darkness, Detect evil, Detect illusion, Detect poison, Faerie fire, Find familiar, Give wounds, Light, Magic disk, Mending, Minor quest, Read languages, Reflected image, Seduction I, Sleep, Unseen servant
Second level: Bless, Charm man II, Detect invisibility, ESP, Find traps, Hold person, Hold portal, Identify, Knock, Locate object, Magic mouth, Nature call, Pacify, Pit, Purify food & drink, Pyrotechnics, Seduction II, Speak with animals, Speak with plants, Speak in tongues
Third level: Calm, Clairvoyance, Comfort, Continual light, Cure disease, Dissipate vapor, Fireball, Invisibility, Lightning bolt, Mystic rope, Phantasmal force, Phantom light, Plant entrapment, Prot. from normal missiles, Remove curse, Seduction III
Fourth level: Charm monster, Control fluid, Cure/cause serious wounds, Glyph of warding, Hallucinatory terrain, Infravision, Levitate, Mirror image, Neutralize poison, Plant growth, Polymorph other, Polymorph self, Seduction IV, Shock, Strength, Wall of water
Fifth level: Animal growth, Anti-magic shell, Charm animal, Immunity, Insect plague, Monster summoning I, Oracle, Produce flame, Seduction V, Slow, Spirit, Teleport, Transmute rock to mud, Weakness, Water breathing, Wizard eye
Sixth level: Animate dead, Cancel life level, Evaporate fluids, Haste, Leomund?s secret chest, Lower water, Seduction VI, Telekinesis, True sight, Vision crystal, Wards of defense, Worship
Seventh level: Astral projection, Call spirit, Control lycanthrope, Control undead, Find the path, Fire storm, Geas, Legend lore, Love, Seduction VII, Stone to flesh, Wall of ice
Eighth level: Charm man III, Clone, Death, Dispel enchantment, Mass polymorph, Reincarnation, Rusting touch, Seduction VIII, Summon devil, Temporary resurrection, Wasting, Youth
Obviously, this list contains a fair number of new spells; in fact, 5 pages of them! I'm not going to go to the trouble to list them all. Suffice to say, I hope to have made the point that the witch is more than "wizard who can make magic items," especially due to the flavor text. Now, whether or not the powers that be think that this is enough to make it different enough to be worthy of inclusion in a future volume... well, that I cannot say.
The witch "class" in the DMG is not a class at all; it is a suggested variant spell list, with a few suggestions on how to make a class out of the idea.
The witch class in Dragon Magazine #114 was a revision done by Bill Muhlhausen of an article that first appeared in #43.
In contrast to the DMG witch: "It must be noted that the witch is a very powerful spell-caster. It could conceivably be used as a player character on an experimental basis, but it works best as an NPC used to challenge parties of adventurers on a long-term basis. The class has been deliberately given extraordinary spellcasting powers, in terms of numbers of spells available and the power of individual spells; player-character witches may prove to be overwhelming, but NPC witches are thus. better able to challenge large groups of adventurers. The decidedly evil nature of the witch (as a rule) is also a point against its use as a player-character class."
Though based loosely on the wizardly classes, it is not intended as a subclass thereof, as it is something completely different. They can use both arcane and divine magic, and are actually more like druids than either class. They use nature-based magic, but also enchantments to manipulate humanoids. They gain new spells by sacrificing and praying to archfiends, which send their servants to teach the spells to the witch.
Yes, they make magical as well as alchemical items. At 3rd level they brew poisons and narcotics; at 4th they brew a "truth drug"; at 5th they brew love potions. At 6th level they make potions and scrolls. At 7th level, they make candles that have various effects (philter of love, protection from good/evil, truth drug, telepathy, curative, and curse). At 9th level they can use both arcane and divine scrolls; at 10th level they can acquire a familiar. At 12th level they can make wands and one-shot items. At 13th, they can make an ointment that allows a user to fly as the spell. At 15th, they can make a doll (voodoo doll eh?) that controls a living creature. At 16th, they can make rings, wondrous items, and other permanent items. At 17th, they use the spell fascination once per day. At 20th, they age at 1/10 rate for the rest of their lives. At 21st, they can use limited wish 1/month. At 22nd, they can shapechange once per day.
Specifics on their spell use...
Their list of available spells is as follows:
First level: Change self, Charm man I, Control vapor, Cure wounds, Darkness, Detect evil, Detect illusion, Detect poison, Faerie fire, Find familiar, Give wounds, Light, Magic disk, Mending, Minor quest, Read languages, Reflected image, Seduction I, Sleep, Unseen servant
Second level: Bless, Charm man II, Detect invisibility, ESP, Find traps, Hold person, Hold portal, Identify, Knock, Locate object, Magic mouth, Nature call, Pacify, Pit, Purify food & drink, Pyrotechnics, Seduction II, Speak with animals, Speak with plants, Speak in tongues
Third level: Calm, Clairvoyance, Comfort, Continual light, Cure disease, Dissipate vapor, Fireball, Invisibility, Lightning bolt, Mystic rope, Phantasmal force, Phantom light, Plant entrapment, Prot. from normal missiles, Remove curse, Seduction III
Fourth level: Charm monster, Control fluid, Cure/cause serious wounds, Glyph of warding, Hallucinatory terrain, Infravision, Levitate, Mirror image, Neutralize poison, Plant growth, Polymorph other, Polymorph self, Seduction IV, Shock, Strength, Wall of water
Fifth level: Animal growth, Anti-magic shell, Charm animal, Immunity, Insect plague, Monster summoning I, Oracle, Produce flame, Seduction V, Slow, Spirit, Teleport, Transmute rock to mud, Weakness, Water breathing, Wizard eye
Sixth level: Animate dead, Cancel life level, Evaporate fluids, Haste, Leomund?s secret chest, Lower water, Seduction VI, Telekinesis, True sight, Vision crystal, Wards of defense, Worship
Seventh level: Astral projection, Call spirit, Control lycanthrope, Control undead, Find the path, Fire storm, Geas, Legend lore, Love, Seduction VII, Stone to flesh, Wall of ice
Eighth level: Charm man III, Clone, Death, Dispel enchantment, Mass polymorph, Reincarnation, Rusting touch, Seduction VIII, Summon devil, Temporary resurrection, Wasting, Youth
Obviously, this list contains a fair number of new spells; in fact, 5 pages of them! I'm not going to go to the trouble to list them all. Suffice to say, I hope to have made the point that the witch is more than "wizard who can make magic items," especially due to the flavor text. Now, whether or not the powers that be think that this is enough to make it different enough to be worthy of inclusion in a future volume... well, that I cannot say.
