Dragon/Dungeon sold, Chainmail axed

[Ds Da Man]

Hi all!

In my opinion Chainmail would have been a success if it had carried with it official d20 Mass Battle Rules. Then include unit/skirmish rules based on those.

I agree 100% with this. When I first saw the ads for CM, I thought at least some easy d20 mass battle rules, with some changes for units and such. I also thought your regular PC's could be converted over to CM, no prob.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi there!

I agree 100% with this. When I first saw the ads for CM, I thought at least some easy d20 mass battle rules, with some changes for units and such. I also thought your regular PC's could be converted over to CM, no prob.

I wonder what Chris Pramas has to say about this?

I seem to recall Chris mentioned that he advocated the inclusion of such rules but was over-ruled by WotC (Hasbro?) 'high ups'.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

The future of D&D with another company is not an issue for me, since I'm on my last edition of the game that I'll be buying. However the sale of Dragon is great! I wish it was like it was in the 80's, a lot more general purpose but still mainly a D&D mag. If the typical content included book & game reviews along with an occasional GURPS or White Wolf article it would be great. I can't say I've been very happy with Dragon in a while, except for the Greyhawk Journals.


Too bad Gygax won't buy the game back...

 

[Ds Da Man]

Hi there!



I wonder what Chris Pramas has to say about this?

I seem to recall Chris mentioned that he advocated the inclusion of such rules but was over-ruled by WotC (Hasbro?) 'high ups'.

I don't believe that management would have ever made a bad decision like that, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE UPPER MANAGEMENT COULD EVER MAKE A MISTAKE!!!! NO!!!!!

(They're all a bunch of jacka$$e$)

 

[KnowTheToe]

I wouldn't want Dragon as general RPG mag; it should stay D&D. I have no need for general RPG mag, because I'll get all the info on non D&D games from the web. Crunchy bits for D&D I don't get from the web, so I'll buy the mag.

No gerneral as in other systems, but general as in a wider range of input on D&D.

EXACTLY. I like this Ssendam dude.

 

[Oracular Vision]

In tough economic times, companies return to their core business, those that aren't too busy falsifying their financial statements that is.

What this means is you dump underperformers (Chainmail)\
You sell off marginal performers outside your core business (Dragon/Dungeon magazine, you are not a magazine company, you are a game company)
And you sell off good performers outside your core business (the computer games rights sell-off that killed Master Tools)

These are all standard practices for businesses, right out of Harvard Business School, and should shock no one.

By extension, role-playing games are not the core business...

Adkinson and Gygax could swing the finances. I doubt Monte, Skip, or Sean could. I expect the line to be sold whenever the revenue stream flattens out, i.e., when the products have reached saturation, and I suspect that is already happening. Bean counters like quick cash from businesses they don't understand. I think it would be better off in the hands of a business whose only business is RPG. And that day is coming...

 

[Vaxalon]

... Chainmail would have been a success if it had carried with it official d20 Mass Battle Rules. Then include unit/skirmish rules based on those.

Yep, they fouled up big-time on this.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

I don't believe that management would have ever made a bad decision like that, I JUST DON'T BELIEVE UPPER MANAGEMENT COULD EVER MAKE A MISTAKE!!!! NO!!!!!

The only reason I could envision was that they wanted to release Mass Combat Rules divorced from Chainmail (though we still haven't heard of such a product in the wings!?) - however, you would think that the Chainmail concept and Mass Combat Rules would be intrinsically linked...

...a bit like the Epic Rules and Deities & Demigods should have been married (but thats a topic for another day)!

 

[Ulrick]

I'm really not too worried about Dragon/Dungeon being sold off as I've decided once and for all to let my subscription run out to Dragon.

Its strange really, I've compared issues of Dragon from the early 90s and now, I believe there's an overall decline of quality of the information it in. And yes, it seems like now its just a advertisement for WotC products. Especially the issue deing with the Epic Level Handbook.

When I first starting picking up Dragon there was at least 3 things almost in every issue that I could use in my games. Now that isn't the case.

I like how Dungeon is set up but I have no need for it because I create my own adventures and I'm still using stuff from 1st and 2nd edition.

As for Chainmail, I am a little dissappointed. I like that game. But in IMHO it just wasn't marketed too well. I even expanded the rules to accommodate larger skirmishes. Soon I think I'll be working on rules for mass combat.

Oh well, C'est la vie.

Ulrick

 

[Pramas]

Hi there!



I wonder what Chris Pramas has to say about this?

I seem to recall Chris mentioned that he advocated the inclusion of such rules but was over-ruled by WotC (Hasbro?) 'high ups'.

In the original plan for Chainmail, the skirmish game was to last all of three months (it was meant as a teaser/intro). Then the scaled up, mass battle rules were to be released. It was only later, under the direction of a new brand manager, that the decision was made to cancel the mass battle game and try to "own" the skirmish format (over the protests of the people in the company who actually knew something about minis games). We can see how well that worked.