[Dragon] Lord, the cheese...

[S'mon]

...If I want porn, I'll go get porn.

I think this attitude is almost unique to the USA and (perhaps) to a lesser extent other Anglo-Saxon countries - that visual media should either have no sexual content, or be pornographic, ie there's no room in life for mild sexual titillation that isn't pornographic.

 

[Sagan Darkside]

I think this attitude is almost unique to the USA

If so, then it makes me proud to be an American.

SD

 

[S'mon]

If so, then it makes me proud to be an American.

SD

Why?
I find it a bit odd myself...

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Why?
I find it a bit odd myself...

Ehh, I will get this thread shut down if I open up too much. I will just keep it at I am glad I live in America and not in Europe.

Especially due to comments like yours, not that I think you are being hostile in your observation, but I have heard it enough to make my own conclusions.

SD

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

I should hope you do. Note how I say I'm not sure whether you know or not. It sounds like you do, which I think is wonderful.

Just clarifying.

You're preaching to the converted here. Notice that I didn't ask Paizo to stop, but stated that I just don't like it.

Other people have though and I just don't have the time to write a seperate post for everything. It may be misguided, but I trust people to ignore it if it didn't apply to them.

But I just wish they'd saved that picture for the inside of the magazine, where'd it have better context, if anything.

The issue is about demons and their ilk, after all.

But my mother, bless her, looked at the D&D books after I bought them, found them unoffensive and let it go at that. She liked to keep an eye on us while we played, to make sure it was all what it appeared to be, but that was it. She trusted me, because she knew that I knew how to make the right moral choices.

I had heard people like that were only fairytales.
For some people, going by what they heard from someone who pretends to be an authority isn't good enough. I salute those people. It's unfortunate that when some people pick up a bible, they toss their brain out the window, stick the book in their head, and let it do the thinking. I always enjoy seeing people who still keep using the brain.

The other thing you have to consider is that I dislike the cover on purely aesthetic grounds.

I feel that way about my refrigerator, but it keeps my food from rotting.

---------------------------

I think this attitude is almost unique to the USA and (perhaps) to a lesser extent other Anglo-Saxon countries - that visual media should either have no sexual content, or be pornographic, ie there's no room in life for mild sexual titillation that isn't pornographic.
-----
Why?
I find it a bit odd myself...

Darn puritans. Going to extremes in either direction just isn't healthy.

Ehh, I will get this thread shut down if I open up too much. I will just keep it at I am glad I live in America and not in Europe.

Especially due to comments like yours, not that I think you are being hostile in your observation, but I have heard it enough to make my own conclusions.

SD

Oh brother.

 

[Psion]

Once again though, this is subjective. What is low brow? A lot of people don't think that the cover is low brow at all.

I certainly think I would be hard pressed to find someone who thinks that it is sophisticated.

Well, then I guess you should do what some of the other offended

Y'know, I have made this point multiple times; I think you would have gotten it by now. But since you didn't, I'll repeat it in big capital letters:

I NEVER SAID I WAS OFFENDED BY THIS COVER.

Quit buying Dragon. If the cover isn't a big enough deal for you to quit buying, then you've essentially voided your argument.

Wrong. Paizo, if they have any sense, will take action to keep their existing customers before it ever gets to that point. I am convinced that Paizo does listen to its customers; see the response in the editorials in the last Dungeon if you do not beleive me.

It would be convenient for you if all the people who didn't want this low brow content would just walk away, wouldn't it? That would be nice, but we don't want no magazine. We want a tolerable magazine. Just walking away without striving for change would serve your purposes, not mine, THANKYOUVERYMUCH.

Your prerogative and your responsibility, not mine, not Paizo's.

Your right, but you are again missing the point. The fact that I control the environment I create for my children and myself is a direct impact on my spending habits. And my spending habits ARE Paizo's concerns.

 

[Celebrim]

You'll have to wait on his definitive answer, but...

I think he is trying to say that there is more to life than enjoying yourself, and more to care about than a standard of living and six weeks of vacation in the mountains.

I think he is trying to say that he considers sexuality part of human maturity, and that maturity is about responcibility, not flirtation and voyerism - enherently immature pursuits.

I think he may be trying to say that the only responcible sex is private and between responcible adults who are fully willing to bear the responcibility for whatever consequences that sex will have, and public sex and particular public fantasy about sex having no consequences is unhealthy.

I think he is saying that it is too easy to cross a line with mild titillation, and that sexual titallation is artistically cheap given the ease of provoking sexual feelings in a human viewer.

And I think he probably finds the use of sex as a pervasive marketing tool and substitute for art and culture to be distinctly un-American in the sense that while it is part of American culture now, it is a rejection of prior cultural values for better or worse. America is the country that introduced the black suit to world diplomacy because it thought European fashion too pretentious, concentration on physical appearance undemocratic, and what passed for European manners too salacious. America is the country in which the vote was first given to women in what was then the 'least civilized' portion of the country - the West - because in the West you didn't value a woman primarily for her physical appearance but by her ability and the content of her character.

It seems our 'modern' society has decided that in order to be a famous woman, you have to be a sex object. Two steps forward, one step back.

But if that is what he believes, then he is certain to be losing the battle because social intertia is leaning the other way at present.

Besides which, I reject your premise entirely. You want to find a nation that rejects public titallation, you need to go to Saudia Arabia. For better AND worse, this is afterall the nation of Hollywood and Marline Monroe, and no longer the nation of John Adams and James Monroe.

 

[Psion]

I think this attitude is almost unique to the USA and (perhaps) to a lesser extent other Anglo-Saxon countries

So in otherwords, 90% of the subscription base of Dragon. But go on...

that visual media should either have no sexual content, or be pornographic, ie there's no room in life for mild sexual titillation that isn't pornographic.

Huh? Are we talking about the same America that has grades of porn, and has Swimsuit issues for those who don't want true porn?

What you say does not ring true at all.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

I certainly think I would be hard pressed to find someone who thinks that it is sophisticated.

Y'know, I have made this point multiple times; I think you would have gotten it by now. But since you didn't, I'll repeat it in big capital letters:

I NEVER SAID I WAS OFFENDED BY THIS COVER.

Offended, dissapointed, chafed. Pick the word you like. Try this...
Well, then I guess you should do what some of the other --insert word of choice here-- people have done and put your money where your mouth is.

It would be convenient for you if all the people who didn't want this low brow content would just walk away, wouldn't it?

Why would it be? I don't sell it and I do not subscribe. I buy each issue based on the content and it's use to me. I care not a bit whether you buy it or not.
When did I become a cackling gremlin rubbing my hands together with glee at your misfortune?

That would be nice, but we don't want no magazine. We want a tolerable magazine. Just walking away without striving for change would serve your purposes, not mine, THANKYOUVERYMUCH.

Again I say, we can't always have our cake and eat it too.
And once again, not my purposes. You have not one tiny bit of impact on my life, aside from, perhaps, that my wrists are tired of typing. I think you're overestimating yourself, or letting your frustration get the better of you.

Your right, but you are again missing the point. The fact that I control the environment I create for my children and myself is a direct impact on my spending habits. And my spending habits ARE Paizo's concerns.

Which is why I suggested you speak with your dollar. If you want to write them a letter, fine. If they listen, fine. But if, numerically, it serves their purposes not to change things, then you'll have to either (with all due respect) suck it up and ignore it, or quit buying the magazine.

 

[buzz]

Just wanted to point out

Putting aside the whole cover debate, I think the content of this month's issue has been really good (still making my way through). Mearls' new demons and the "Power Fantasy" articles are my faves so far.