Dragonbane Post-Mortem

[Wolfpack48]

Question: if one wanted to use D&D spells, as in run a Greyhawk game with all of Mordenkainen and Tenser's spells available, how would you adapt them to Dragonbane?

 

[Retreater]

Question: if one wanted to use D&D spells, as in run a Greyhawk game with all of Mordenkainen and Tenser's spells available, how would you adapt them to Dragonbane?

I'll try to give a few pointers, but please keep in mind that I know almost nothing about Greyhawk and since we didn't have spellcasters in the party, I'm not an expert with the magic system in Dragonbane.

First, I'd start with the obvious game terms, making sure you translate them from D&D to Dragonbane. For example, change your ranges from feet to meters. Spell durations of several minutes should probably be converted to a stretch (15 minutes); spell durations of 8 hours should become a shift (6 hours).

Second, spell schools don't usually matter much in D&D, but in Dragonbane they limit who can cast them and what skill is used to do the casting - so it's very important. Looking at the Mordenkainen and Tenser's spells in 5e, they are dividided between abjuration, conjuration, and evocation - which don't have analogs in Dragonbane. I'd be tempted to put abjuration in the general magic category with the other protection magic, evocation in elementalism. The conjuration spells, I think I would create a new category and add a few other conjuration favorites from D&D to "round out" the spell list.

Another consideration is that the fuel for spellcasting in Dragonbane is Willpower Points. It is not on a daily Vancian limit, and Willpower Points can be recharged far easier than spell slots in D&D. Spells like Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and Tenser's Floating Disc trivialize important elements of the Dragonbane gameplay loop (camping and encumbrance, respectively). Thus, I'd consider additional costs to limit their use, such as sacrificing gold or other supplies to cast them. Without such limitations, I'd be concerned that these spells could be cast and Willpower Points regained simply with a 15 minute rest.

There are Ranks (Spell Levels). I think in Dragonbane, they go up to 5th rank as the highest. I'd probably put 7th level spells (like Magnificent Mansion) in 5th rank. Faithful Hound (4th level) could probably be 3rd rank. I think you could assign the Ranks appropriately.

That's most of the advice I have.

 

[Wolfpack48]

I'll try to give a few pointers, but please keep in mind that I know almost nothing about Greyhawk and since we didn't have spellcasters in the party, I'm not an expert with the magic system in Dragonbane.

First, I'd start with the obvious game terms, making sure you translate them from D&D to Dragonbane. For example, change your ranges from feet to meters. Spell durations of several minutes should probably be converted to a stretch (15 minutes); spell durations of 8 hours should become a shift (6 hours).

Second, spell schools don't usually matter much in D&D, but in Dragonbane they limit who can cast them and what skill is used to do the casting - so it's very important. Looking at the Mordenkainen and Tenser's spells in 5e, they are dividided between abjuration, conjuration, and evocation - which don't have analogs in Dragonbane. I'd be tempted to put abjuration in the general magic category with the other protection magic, evocation in elementalism. The conjuration spells, I think I would create a new category and add a few other conjuration favorites from D&D to "round out" the spell list.

Another consideration is that the fuel for spellcasting in Dragonbane is Willpower Points. It is not on a daily Vancian limit, and Willpower Points can be recharged far easier than spell slots in D&D. Spells like Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion and Tenser's Floating Disc trivialize important elements of the Dragonbane gameplay loop (camping and encumbrance, respectively). Thus, I'd consider additional costs to limit their use, such as sacrificing gold or other supplies to cast them. Without such limitations, I'd be concerned that these spells could be cast and Willpower Points regained simply with a 15 minute rest.

There are Ranks (Spell Levels). I think in Dragonbane, they go up to 5th rank as the highest. I'd probably put 7th level spells (like Magnificent Mansion) in 5th rank. Faithful Hound (4th level) could probably be 3rd rank. I think you could assign the Ranks appropriately.

That's most of the advice I have.

Thanks Retreater, those are great tips. I went through today and did a spreadsheet and mapped all the spells as best I could to the D&D spells/schools - think I'll use the D&D schools (abjuration, evocation, etc) and replace Animism, Elementalism, Mentalism. it should work pretty well with the DB system. The DB Mage schools don't map as cleanly, but I think starting characters can perhaps have 2-3 schools to begin.

I plan to use the WP system for powering spells and skip Vancian altogether - basically I just want an equivalent DB version of each D&D spell so I can pull and use DB completely.

For levels, I think:

Cantrip to Level 3 = Magic Trick to Rank 1
Level 4 to 5 = Rank 2
Level 6 to 7 = Rank 3
Level 8 = Rank 4
Level 9 = Rank 5

Next part will be adapting the spells themselves but the existing ones that have already been mapped should serve as a good guideline.

 

[Staffan]

First, I'd start with the obvious game terms, making sure you translate them from D&D to Dragonbane. For example, change your ranges from feet to meters. Spell durations of several minutes should probably be converted to a stretch (15 minutes); spell durations of 8 hours should become a shift (6 hours).

A thing to consider here is the context of durations and ranges. For example, many 5e spells have ranges of 30, 60, or 90 feet. The important thing here is not the distance as such, but that these are how far an average character can move in 1, 2, or 3 rounds. That should be the appropriate starting point for conversion, not 9/18/27 meters.

 

[Wolfpack48]

A thing to consider here is the context of durations and ranges. For example, many 5e spells have ranges of 30, 60, or 90 feet. The important thing here is not the distance as such, but that these are how far an average character can move in 1, 2, or 3 rounds. That should be the appropriate starting point for conversion, not 9/18/27 meters.

Good point -- I'm looking at most of the DB spells, and they are going to pretty standard 10m, 20m, 30m increments. These translate easily to 5sq, 10sq and 15sq on the map. Easiest to just go with these flat distances to true up with other DB spells.

On another note, I'm finding it pretty easy to translate spells so far. The templates are actually pretty close, and it's pretty easy to equate DB power level with a D&D spell slot for added effects. Spell damage done is slightly less in DB, but it's not too hard to extrapolate. Magic Missile for example can almost stay exactly as is, doing bludgeoning damage. Saving throws are either characteristic checks or opposed rolls. Easy peasy.

 

[Retreater]

What Next?

Player B and C seem to be wanting to go in the direction of old school D&D (THAC0-era). Player A wants to be a badass (which really can't happen in TSR-era gaming). We're going to meet over card games next week and discuss what we want. Could be Savage Worlds. Could be old school D&D. Could be Age of Sigmar Soulbound. I have no idea.

The group voted on Savage Worlds.

We played it around a year ago, but when we were discussing our options, Players B and C said "we really liked that game we played a year ago - if only they used the same rules but the setting was different."
"Well, guys, it just so happens, that's sort of what Savage Worlds is famous for."

Wanting to get out of the fantasy genre, the group was leaning towards Savage Rifts. I told them that would be like jumping into your first game of D&D playing 18th level. I encouraged them to instead try Deadlands Lost Colony as a step towards Savage Rifts.

We'll see how it goes. Might be okay for a few months. (I'm honestly not holding out hope of anything lasting very long if it's not D&D [or adjacent] - that's been my experience as a gamer for the past 30 years.)

 

[Wolfpack48]

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[dbm]

I encouraged them to instead try Deadlands Lost Colony as a step towards Savage Rifts.

Probably a sensible approach. I would put Lost Colony as one of the least complex Pinnacle backdrops. ‘Proper’ Deadlands is possibly a little more complex, then Savage Pathfinder with Savage Rifts where everything goes to 11.

I’m currently running the plot point campaign from the Lost Colony book and my players are enjoying it.