Dragonlance DragonLance Paladine and Takhisis, how did they return?

[HobbitFan]

That Darksun lore sounds horribly stupid.

On the topic of Dragonlance, I hope WOTC licenses the DL stuff out to Margaret Weis' company.
In terms of reboot or not, I'm not sure how I feel about wiping away all the continuity but I do think that Takhisis and Paladine should be alive.
I have no idea why Weis and Hickman thought killing Takhisis and demoting Paladine made sense at end of War of Souls. That trilogy was supposed to be about fixing Dragonalnce after 5th age mistakes not making things worse....and they did fix alot then dropped the ball with the Gods. And Mina..lordy didd I hate Mina....

 

[DMZ2112]

So I'm curious if anyone has any ideas about why these two gods are back, and what the eventual plans might be in the future from WOTC in regards to this.

R-R-R-RETCON! ::cheers::

My guess is if they do a DL story for 5e it would be set in the War of the Lance period. However, since we got a big evil dragon god story already is that we won't get much of anything for DL in quite some time.

Stands to reason that the next UA article is going to be Dragonlance -- it's been stated explicitly that they owe us kender from the DMG cutting room floor. But in terms of adventure support? Yeah, it's going to be a while.

no haflings in a hollow moon space ship..

Hands down the best part of Dark Sun lore. HANDS DOWN.

I'm always amused how pulp fans clamor for a more "pulpy" settings and as soon as they get really pulpy they're all, "Oh noez, what are you doing, it's ruined!" It does not get more John Carter than cannibal genetic engineer halflings from space --how can you not love this?

I have it on good authority that the return of the Messenger was always the intended conclusion of the setting. Apparently many of the AD&D2 settings had preplanned "conclusions," like Planescape's Faction War, although most were never reached.

The takeaway from the lesson of the Messenger is that there's no onus on players or dungeon masters to set their campaigns at the leading edge of a setting's timeline. Don't like the Messenger? Set your campaign earlier. Don't like the Faction War? Set your campaign earlier! Don't like the War of Souls? Retcon everyth-- I mean, set your campaign earlier!

 

[fjw70]

Stands to reason that the next UA article is going to be Dragonlance -- it's been stated explicitly that they owe us kender from the DMG cutting room floor. But in terms of adventure support? Yeah, it's going to be a while.

I could see DL getting the UA treatment soon.

 

[DMZ2112]

I have no idea why Weis and Hickman thought killing Takhisis and demoting Paladine made sense at end of War of Souls. That trilogy was supposed to be about fixing Dragonalnce after 5th age mistakes not making things worse....and they did fix alot then dropped the ball with the Gods. And Mina..lordy didd I hate Mina....

My pet theory is that Weis and Hickman have been trying to quietly kill Dragonlance ever since they lost creative control in the early 90s. Much like its contemporary, Legacy of the Darksword, Dragons of Summer Flame reads like an ending. They kill /Tanis/ anonymously in battle, for gods' sakes. They send the gods away again, when their return is the /central conceit/ of all Dragonlance.

I can't believe it was their intention that things go on, and when they did, I think Weis and Hickman took every opportunity they were given to discredit the post-Summer Flame setting. I see no other explanation for Mina and the War of Souls disintegration (Qualinesti -- what a train wreck).

I mean, it's not like they suffered matching strokes -- the Lost Chronicles and their recent work in other settings have been wonderful.

In my personal Dragonlance timeline, Paladine still steps down and becomes Valthonis, but he does so much earlier -- Takhisis' "plan to absorb the power of Chaos as he is sealed" goes the way anyone would expect and she immolates at the end of the War of Chaos. Whoops. The Age of Mortals never occurs, the Knights of Takhisis still become the (much cooler) Knights of Neraka, and Mina remains blissfully asleep at the bottom of the ocean. Forever.

I could see DL getting the UA treatment soon.

If I were Wizards I'd do setting crunch for as many of these first UAs as possible. Get some traction. Sell some classic PDFs. Then when the books come out in a few years you have a community to which to sell.

 

[genxesis]

Novel-wise, Tak is dead and Pal is an elf. As someone else mentioned, the PHB just assumes those stories never happened and/or they are giving us the ability to use them if we wanted.

 

[Raunalyn]

Well, in my DL game, I just did a complete reboot...sorta. I kinda did the J.J. Abrams Star Trek kinda reboot.

Time travel is well established in the canonical DL world. What if someone went back and killed all or most of the companions before they could join the War of the Lance? How would the balance correct itself?

After that, the question becomes, "Who has the power to go back and do something like that...and how?"

I didn't mind the 5th Age...many of the themes were fine with me. I wasn't all that keen on the restoration of healing magic (it was within us all along...), but I did enjoy the idea that much of the more powerful magic could only be cast by draining magical items to power your spells. The 5th Age Saga Rules, while lambasted by many people, I actually found refreshingly original and wonderfully simple.

The War of Souls, though...I love Weis and Hickman, I really do...but that was a train wreck.

To me, the main problem with the Dragonlance novels was that they kept returning to the Companions. The books that touched on different eras or had nothing to do with the companions were just fine for me. So were the core Chronicles and Legends. The prequels...most of those were just awful.

 

[DMZ2112]

I didn't mind the 5th Age...many of the themes were fine with me. I wasn't all that keen on the restoration of healing magic (it was within us all along...)

Apparently Mysticism was too weak to be of any use until the changes wrought by Chaos after the cracking of the Graygem. Today I learned.

My problem with Fifth Age can be summed up in two words: "alien dragons." Crap on a cracker, what an awful idea. Setting changes that big should not spring from whole cloth. Have Chaos break the Great Wyrm limit on dragon age and growth, fine. Have the resulting dragon lords take over Ansalon in a thousand years' time, fine. But alien dragons. Come on. Someone should have caught that narrative break and nipped it in the bud.

I still like the SAGA rules too. I own the Silver Anniversary rerelease of the original DL modules in SAGA and would love to run them someday.

 

[Raunalyn]

Apparently Mysticism was too weak to be of any use until the changes wrought by Chaos after the cracking of the Graygem. Today I learned.

My problem with Fifth Age can be summed up in two words: "alien dragons." Crap on a cracker, what an awful idea. Setting changes that big should not spring from whole cloth. Have Chaos break the Great Wyrm limit on dragon age and growth, fine. Have the resulting dragon lords take over Ansalon in a thousand years' time, fine. But alien dragons. Come on. Someone should have caught that narrative break and nipped it in the bud.

I still like the SAGA rules too. I own the Silver Anniversary rerelease of the original DL modules in SAGA and would love to run them someday.

Remember, though...no one knew they were alien dragons until the War of Souls.

 

[Curmudjinn]

Pretty sure the 4e version kept Tyr as a non-Sorcerer-King-run city. Which is the fundamental event that ruined Dark Sun as a setting.

I remember hearing quite a few of my FLGS die-hards losing their minds about the Time of Troubles, some even stepping away from the Realms(and two even turning to Shadowrun). The deaths of Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul hit them like losing a child. Mind you I was too young for this but the bearded veterans told me the tale.

 

[aramis erak]

Apparently Mysticism was too weak to be of any use until the changes wrought by Chaos after the cracking of the Graygem. Today I learned.

My problem with Fifth Age can be summed up in two words: "alien dragons." Crap on a cracker, what an awful idea. Setting changes that big should not spring from whole cloth. Have Chaos break the Great Wyrm limit on dragon age and growth, fine. Have the resulting dragon lords take over Ansalon in a thousand years' time, fine. But alien dragons. Come on. Someone should have caught that narrative break and nipped it in the bud.

I still like the SAGA rules too. I own the Silver Anniversary rerelease of the original DL modules in SAGA and would love to run them someday.

I got a good way through when I last ran the Silver Aniversary DL Classics ... but the big problem for DLC and Saga was that the magic systems were SO different.

I like the Saga engine... but running DLC with it was a nightmare.