Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

[Micah Sweet]

that isn't good, that is neutral at best, in D&D 5e

Well, yet another good reason why DL doesn't match up with the current edition.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Spock now has a secret brother AND sister. Holograms existed in Starfleet before Kirk (this is explained in the new show that Pike doesnt like them and had the tech taken out of the Enterprise (hence why Kirk didnt have it either). Pike used magic crystals to travel through time... sort of. But thats pretty Trek anyways. Or he's possibly referring to the new Hyperleap mold warp speed thing that the Discovery can do which yeah seems like that might have gotten expanded on in the hundreds years later

None of that changes the history of the setting on screen. That's what matters to me. I don't want events to have transpired differently. Secret stuff we didn't previously know about? That's fine.

 

[Micah Sweet]

yes and in and of itself that is cool

when did anyone (but you) say anything about whipeing out... why is the only binary choice "work with, help, defend" or "go to all out war"

oh god... this is hard to do without getting political but NO good people do NOT have to let evil people get power and say or the ones in the middle will side with evil people... that makes the middle guys EVIL.

by modern standards (both IRL and in game) the crusades were not good.

then fidn word other then good and evil

DL isn't written to appeal to modern sensibilities. You don't like that? Make a setting that does.

 

[DarkCrisis]

yup make the evil wizard renegades be the 'this is our story of why we need balance' and the good ones are a hidden rebellion trying to do good and help people

Which completely takes away from the unique idea that all mages are in a brotherhood despite their differences and that The Magic is more important over ideology. Instead lets turn it all into the same thing every other setting has but it has a dragon war.

Is "All Mages are brothers" really so hard a thing to imagine?

 

[GMforPowergamers]

DL isn't written to appeal to modern sensibilities. You don't like that? Make a setting that does.

If WotC wants to publish a new version today I think THEY need to make it modern sensibilities

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Which completely takes away from the unique idea that all mages are in a brotherhood despite their differences and that The Magic is more important over ideology. Instead lets turn it all into the same thing every other setting has but it has a dragon war.

Is "All Mages are brothers" really so hard a thing to imagine?

evil being really evil and good working in brother hood with them... YES, and it should NOT be published in 2022 or 20223.

 

[Alzrius]

I mean you can... but I doubt that is in the cards

It doesn't strike me as any less plausible than anything else proposed here. But even then, it's somewhat moot, since joining the Black Robes is a self-declaration of evil anyway. So the point stands with regard to White Robes countenancing the existence of evil as soon as someone reaches for the dark-colored clothes.

so as long as they commit evil acts without upsetting the status qui... that isn't a good look in 2022

"Total war to annihilate the people who disagree with us" isn't a good look in any year.

this just in the new definition of good is only being good when it is easy.

Here's what the new definition of good is not: starting a wide-ranging struggle that will ruin the lives of countless innocent people...because you wanted to save innocent people.

okay now do that dance with evil wizards being able to hunt down good ones that refuse the test... good, smart wizards that want to do good. Why should white robed 'good' guys allow that...

If they want to do good, and know that they won't be allowed to because they're refusing to take the Test, doesn't that mean that they don't actually want to do good? Otherwise, why aren't they taking the path that's most likely to let them perform good acts?

why does alignment matter at all if everyone is working for balance? why not just align with the three moons white red and black and ignore aligment?

Asking "why not" radically alter something is, as a general rule, fairly pointless. It tends to put the burden of proof on the status quo, when in fact it's the proposed change that needs to justify why it's better. In this case, what you're saying here ignores the fact that "Balance" is an aggregate of good, neutral, and evil.

sure... when evil guys do evil we get aa 3-6 man team of specialists together... a fighter a mage a thief and and priest and send them out to oppose them.

And what stops them from putting together a team of similar composition to stop you? Because any answer you give will have a matching response from them, due to the Black Robes having comparable numbers, resources, and abilities. Hence why it could only escalate into a conflict with no clear winner and many potential losers.

I don't believe this is true in the real world or the game

Just because you don't believe it to be true doesn't mean it's not true, though.

correct but i doubt the reimagining will change the spells

If it has before, it could again.

okay lets try this again...
assuming someone that is evil will over time do more evil then good (I assume we can agree with this)
Anyone (caster or not) that is good aligned should NOT want to be associated with evil acts, and should appose at least most if not all evil acts.
Now if we assume both are MOSTLY true, and the entire organization is okay with 1/3 the group being evil. then the white robes should not by most standards be good.

What you're talking about might work at the individual level, but it absolutely falls apart once you start talking about organizations. Any group that is too large to simply be ignored, or easily opposed without invoking consequences that have dramatic repercussions (which can affect far more people than just the few who make the decisions), cannot be actively worked against in the manner you're describing. Therefore, the best option available to Good wizards is to keep the peace as best they can, knowing that Evil will (or rather, has to) be allowed to exist and continue doing evil acts on some scale. To recognize that that's the best you can do does not mean you're not Good; it just means you're doing the best you can in an imperfect situation.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Which completely takes away from the unique idea that all mages are in a brotherhood despite their differences and that The Magic is more important over ideology. Instead lets turn it all into the same thing every other setting has but it has a dragon war.

Is "All Mages are brothers" really so hard a thing to imagine?

They can be brothers.

They can be a murderous organization that terrorizes hedgewizards.

They just can't be considered good guys.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

"Total war to annihilate the people who disagree with us" isn't a good look in any year.

okay i am trying to humor you but ONLY YOU think war is the other side of this not me.

Here's what the new definition of good is not: starting a wide-ranging struggle that will ruin the lives of countless innocent people...because you wanted to save innocent people.

don't start a war then... but don't work with evil

If they want to do good, and know that they won't be allowed to because they're refusing to take the Test, doesn't that mean that they don't actually want to do good? Otherwise, why aren't they taking the path that's most likely to let them perform good acts?

if they risk there lives to take the test they are part of 'brotherhood' with evil and has to protect them... no thanks

Asking "why not" radically alter something is, as a general rule, fairly pointless.

except it appears to be what WotC is doing, removing alignment robe restrictions... and class too.

It tends to put the burden of proof on the status quo, when in fact it's the proposed change that needs to justify why it's better. In this case, what you're saying here ignores the fact that "Balance" is an aggregate of good, neutral, and evil.

I can't help you if you ignore the whole thread

And what stops them from putting together a team of similar composition to stop you?

nothing... that's the game. Good guys vs Bad guys....

Because any answer you give will have a matching response from them, due to the Black Robes having comparable numbers, resources, and abilities.

but would they once you removed the support of the good guys?

Hence why it could only escalate into a conflict with no clear winner and many potential losers.

if that was the case then every setting ever is doomed/

Just because you don't believe it to be true doesn't mean it's not true, though.

evil is BAD... how can we not agree on that!?!?!? Good people don't allow bad people to do bad things.

If it has before, it could again.

it did many editions and decides ago, I doubt it will going forward.

What you're talking about might work at the individual level, but it absolutely falls apart once you start talking about organizations.

no it doesn't. Evil people commit more evil then good. an Organization that is empowering magic that allows EVIL people to be themselves and be evil is not good. full stop.
Now maybe some evil slips by and tricks the good orginization... that's fine, but it's not a good organization if it allows it when found. So the white robes are not good.

Any group that is too large to simply be ignored, or easily opposed without invoking consequences that have dramatic repercussions (which can affect far more people than just the few who make the decisions), cannot be actively worked against in the manner you're describing.

that is untrue. if it was true no society on earth could oppose evil when presented, yet WW2 shows otherwise.

Therefore, the best option available to Good wizards is to keep the peace as best they can, knowing that Evil will (or rather, has to) be allowed to exist and continue doing evil acts on some scale.

no... just no. Good does NOT have to let evil be evil. Maybe good can say "we can't stop them" but they can't say "lets help them gain power" or else they should not be called good.

When superman says "I can't stop luther" that is okay
When superman says "Since I can't stop luther I will help him build better machines and help lex corp be better at powering up his evil ideas" it isn't okay

To recognize that that's the best you can do does not mean you're not Good; it just means you're doing the best you can in an imperfect situation.

If your accepting that amount of evil you are neutral by D*D not good

 

[GMforPowergamers]

They can be brothers.

They can be a murderous organization that terrorizes hedgewizards.

They just can't be considered good guys.

thank you