Micah Sweet
Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
Well, yet another good reason why DL doesn't match up with the current edition.that isn't good, that is neutral at best, in D&D 5e
Well, yet another good reason why DL doesn't match up with the current edition.that isn't good, that is neutral at best, in D&D 5e
None of that changes the history of the setting on screen. That's what matters to me. I don't want events to have transpired differently. Secret stuff we didn't previously know about? That's fine.Spock now has a secret brother AND sister. Holograms existed in Starfleet before Kirk (this is explained in the new show that Pike doesnt like them and had the tech taken out of the Enterprise (hence why Kirk didnt have it either). Pike used magic crystals to travel through time... sort of. But thats pretty Trek anyways. Or he's possibly referring to the new Hyperleap mold warp speed thing that the Discovery can do which yeah seems like that might have gotten expanded on in the hundreds years later
DL isn't written to appeal to modern sensibilities. You don't like that? Make a setting that does.yes and in and of itself that is cool
when did anyone (but you) say anything about whipeing out... why is the only binary choice "work with, help, defend" or "go to all out war"
oh god... this is hard to do without getting political but NO good people do NOT have to let evil people get power and say or the ones in the middle will side with evil people... that makes the middle guys EVIL.
by modern standards (both IRL and in game) the crusades were not good.
then fidn word other then good and evil
Which completely takes away from the unique idea that all mages are in a brotherhood despite their differences and that The Magic is more important over ideology. Instead lets turn it all into the same thing every other setting has but it has a dragon war.yup make the evil wizard renegades be the 'this is our story of why we need balance' and the good ones are a hidden rebellion trying to do good and help people
If WotC wants to publish a new version today I think THEY need to make it modern sensibilitiesDL isn't written to appeal to modern sensibilities. You don't like that? Make a setting that does.
evil being really evil and good working in brother hood with them... YES, and it should NOT be published in 2022 or 20223.Which completely takes away from the unique idea that all mages are in a brotherhood despite their differences and that The Magic is more important over ideology. Instead lets turn it all into the same thing every other setting has but it has a dragon war.
Is "All Mages are brothers" really so hard a thing to imagine?
It doesn't strike me as any less plausible than anything else proposed here. But even then, it's somewhat moot, since joining the Black Robes is a self-declaration of evil anyway. So the point stands with regard to White Robes countenancing the existence of evil as soon as someone reaches for the dark-colored clothes.I mean you can... but I doubt that is in the cards
"Total war to annihilate the people who disagree with us" isn't a good look in any year.so as long as they commit evil acts without upsetting the status qui... that isn't a good look in 2022
Here's what the new definition of good is not: starting a wide-ranging struggle that will ruin the lives of countless innocent people...because you wanted to save innocent people.this just in the new definition of good is only being good when it is easy.
If they want to do good, and know that they won't be allowed to because they're refusing to take the Test, doesn't that mean that they don't actually want to do good? Otherwise, why aren't they taking the path that's most likely to let them perform good acts?okay now do that dance with evil wizards being able to hunt down good ones that refuse the test... good, smart wizards that want to do good. Why should white robed 'good' guys allow that...
Asking "why not" radically alter something is, as a general rule, fairly pointless. It tends to put the burden of proof on the status quo, when in fact it's the proposed change that needs to justify why it's better. In this case, what you're saying here ignores the fact that "Balance" is an aggregate of good, neutral, and evil.why does alignment matter at all if everyone is working for balance? why not just align with the three moons white red and black and ignore aligment?
And what stops them from putting together a team of similar composition to stop you? Because any answer you give will have a matching response from them, due to the Black Robes having comparable numbers, resources, and abilities. Hence why it could only escalate into a conflict with no clear winner and many potential losers.sure... when evil guys do evil we get aa 3-6 man team of specialists together... a fighter a mage a thief and and priest and send them out to oppose them.
Just because you don't believe it to be true doesn't mean it's not true, though.I don't believe this is true in the real world or the game
If it has before, it could again.correct but i doubt the reimagining will change the spells
What you're talking about might work at the individual level, but it absolutely falls apart once you start talking about organizations. Any group that is too large to simply be ignored, or easily opposed without invoking consequences that have dramatic repercussions (which can affect far more people than just the few who make the decisions), cannot be actively worked against in the manner you're describing. Therefore, the best option available to Good wizards is to keep the peace as best they can, knowing that Evil will (or rather, has to) be allowed to exist and continue doing evil acts on some scale. To recognize that that's the best you can do does not mean you're not Good; it just means you're doing the best you can in an imperfect situation.okay lets try this again...
assuming someone that is evil will over time do more evil then good (I assume we can agree with this)
Anyone (caster or not) that is good aligned should NOT want to be associated with evil acts, and should appose at least most if not all evil acts.
Now if we assume both are MOSTLY true, and the entire organization is okay with 1/3 the group being evil. then the white robes should not by most standards be good.
They can be brothers.Which completely takes away from the unique idea that all mages are in a brotherhood despite their differences and that The Magic is more important over ideology. Instead lets turn it all into the same thing every other setting has but it has a dragon war.
Is "All Mages are brothers" really so hard a thing to imagine?
okay i am trying to humor you but ONLY YOU think war is the other side of this not me."Total war to annihilate the people who disagree with us" isn't a good look in any year.
don't start a war then... but don't work with evilHere's what the new definition of good is not: starting a wide-ranging struggle that will ruin the lives of countless innocent people...because you wanted to save innocent people.
if they risk there lives to take the test they are part of 'brotherhood' with evil and has to protect them... no thanksIf they want to do good, and know that they won't be allowed to because they're refusing to take the Test, doesn't that mean that they don't actually want to do good? Otherwise, why aren't they taking the path that's most likely to let them perform good acts?
except it appears to be what WotC is doing, removing alignment robe restrictions... and class too.Asking "why not" radically alter something is, as a general rule, fairly pointless.
I can't help you if you ignore the whole threadIt tends to put the burden of proof on the status quo, when in fact it's the proposed change that needs to justify why it's better. In this case, what you're saying here ignores the fact that "Balance" is an aggregate of good, neutral, and evil.
nothing... that's the game. Good guys vs Bad guys....And what stops them from putting together a team of similar composition to stop you?
but would they once you removed the support of the good guys?Because any answer you give will have a matching response from them, due to the Black Robes having comparable numbers, resources, and abilities.
if that was the case then every setting ever is doomed/Hence why it could only escalate into a conflict with no clear winner and many potential losers.
evil is BAD... how can we not agree on that!?!?!? Good people don't allow bad people to do bad things.Just because you don't believe it to be true doesn't mean it's not true, though.
it did many editions and decides ago, I doubt it will going forward.If it has before, it could again.
no it doesn't. Evil people commit more evil then good. an Organization that is empowering magic that allows EVIL people to be themselves and be evil is not good. full stop.What you're talking about might work at the individual level, but it absolutely falls apart once you start talking about organizations.
that is untrue. if it was true no society on earth could oppose evil when presented, yet WW2 shows otherwise.Any group that is too large to simply be ignored, or easily opposed without invoking consequences that have dramatic repercussions (which can affect far more people than just the few who make the decisions), cannot be actively worked against in the manner you're describing.
no... just no. Good does NOT have to let evil be evil. Maybe good can say "we can't stop them" but they can't say "lets help them gain power" or else they should not be called good.Therefore, the best option available to Good wizards is to keep the peace as best they can, knowing that Evil will (or rather, has to) be allowed to exist and continue doing evil acts on some scale.
If your accepting that amount of evil you are neutral by D*D not goodTo recognize that that's the best you can do does not mean you're not Good; it just means you're doing the best you can in an imperfect situation.
thank youThey can be brothers.
They can be a murderous organization that terrorizes hedgewizards.
They just can't be considered good guys.