Dragons and associated levels

[Cam Banks]

Quick question, here.

Which, if any, of the core classes would be considered associated for the purposes of giving dragons classes? I tried to find some examples in WOTC products and wasn't able to. The Wyrms of the North articles occasionally have dragon wizards and so on, but they don't appear to consider the non-associated issue - they just add the levels straight to the CR.

Any thoughts? Sorcerer would on first blush seem to be associated except it's a very weak class compared to the dragon's all good saves and d12 HD.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[glass]

Quick question, here.

Which, if any, of the core classes would be considered associated for the purposes of giving dragons classes? I tried to find some examples in WOTC products and wasn't able to. The Wyrms of the North articles occasionally have dragon wizards and so on, but they don't appear to consider the non-associated issue - they just add the levels straight to the CR.

Any thoughts? Sorcerer would on first blush seem to be associated except it's a very weak class compared to the dragon's all good saves and d12 HD.

Cheers,
Cam

I'd say pretty much all classes are associated for dragons. They are good at everything, so any class they take would be building on one of their strengths.


glass.

 

[mikebr99]

Quick question, here.

Which, if any, of the core classes would be considered associated for the purposes of giving dragons classes? I tried to find some examples in WOTC products and wasn't able to. The Wyrms of the North articles occasionally have dragon wizards and so on, but they don't appear to consider the non-associated issue - they just add the levels straight to the CR.

Any thoughts? Sorcerer would on first blush seem to be associated except it's a very weak class compared to the dragon's all good saves and d12 HD.

Cheers,
Cam

But Dragon's are already Sorcerers...

Spells: A dragon knows and casts arcane spells as a sorcerer of the level indicated in its variety description, gaining bonus spells for a high Charisma score. Some dragons can also cast spells from the cleric list or cleric domain lists as arcane spells.

Your typical Great Wyrm in the MM has all the spells of a 19th level sorcerer.

Mike

 

[Cam Banks]

But Dragon's are already Sorcerers...

I know. Sorcerer levels would therefore stack with those already possessed by the dragon. The reason I'd be interested in doing this is to make the dragon a better sorcerer without advancing its age category and size.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[mikebr99]

I know. Sorcerer levels would therefore stack with those already possessed by the dragon. The reason I'd be interested in doing this is to make the dragon a better sorcerer without advancing its age category and size.

Cheers,
Cam

nod... then x levels of Sorcerer would mean the the Dragon's CR would be the age category's std. + x.

Mike

 

[mikebr99]

But please note... Dragon's are already undervalued WRT their CR. Adding to many Sorcerer levels may result in a TPK. YMMV


Mike

 

[Cam Banks]

But please note... Dragon's are already undervalued WRT their CR. Adding to many Sorcerer levels may result in a TPK. YMMV

You think giving them better spellcasting but only adding d4 HD and a good Will save and 2 skill points/level is the equivalent of advancing their age category until it's the same CR?

This is my concern - I understand how to add class levels to creatures and the effects this has. I'm just curious to know if there have been any concrete examples in WOTC's products in 3.5 that speak to this issue.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Vuron]

I think the problem with giving class levels to Dragons is that for the most part it's a better advantage for the dragon to advance his age category rather than take a regular class level. Some of the Dragon PrCs from Draconomicon reduce the disadvantage but in general unless it's for fluff reasons there is limited reasons to add class levels onto a Dragon.

Even with sorceror which stacks with natural ability the increase in casting ability is offset by the weakened (per CR) melee and breath weapon abilities.

I think even if you make all PC classes non-associated the benefit is somewhat limited unless you really want unlock specific spells or class abilities.

 

[Sejs]

I'd have Sorcerers (stacks with their natural spellcasting), Barbarians, and Fighters (caters to their already significant physical combat capability) count as associated classes.

Dragon monk? Cleric? Bard? No problem. That's all a solid left turn from what a dragon normally does: fightin' and sorcererin'.