DriveThruRPG Exclusivity

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Both Monte and FDP used the line "first completely professional gaming site" (or some paraphrase thereof) in their press releases which says to me its a "talking point" of the site.

In other words that phrase is meant to steer you away from all the "unprofessionals" over at RPGNow who were not invited or declined the invitation to play with the cool kids.

Chuck
 

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Vigilance said:
Both Monte and FDP used the line "first completely professional gaming site" (or some paraphrase thereof) in their press releases which says to me its a "talking point" of the site.

In other words that phrase is meant to steer you away from all the "unprofessionals" over at RPGNow who were not invited or declined the invitation to play with the cool kids.

Chuck
Funny, I got that exact same impression. On RPGNow.com, they have links for "potential vendors" to inquire about and see the basics of the RPGNow.com program. In other words, they want you to sell your PDFs there. At DriveThruRPG.com, it looks like an "invitation-only" site.

As for the "completely professional" phrase, I hope Eric's Grandmother will pardon my French, but a line like that is utter and complete horses--t.

What makes someone a professional? They get paid for what they do. Let's see... DTRPG has no privacy policy posted on the site. Doesn't accept international registration (or rather, assumes everyone is in the US). Most online sites are a little more - well, I don't know what, but they have a privacy policy when they ask for private info (such as, say, home address, phone, and CREDIT CARD NUMBERS). Hmm... seems to me that RPGNow.com is just as "professional" as DTRPG.com... and the fact that DTRPG.com is trying to corner that phrase is as unprofessional as anything I've seen in a while, so I would call RPGNow.com MORE professional than DTRPG.com myself.

Also, I find it interesting that the site's php code, including the "labels" they use to mark vendors and products, is REMARKABLY similar to RPGNow.com's code... if RPGNow.com's code is proprietary, it's possible that this site, which touts so heavily "protecting valuable copyrighted material through DRM" is itself infringing upon RPGNow.com's code.

Since RPGNow.com has said they got an offer to be bought, one wonders if a "due diligence" phase got the folks at DTRPG.com the backend php code used at RPGNow.com... hmm... even if they AREN'T using RPGNow.com's code, it sure as heck looks like it... and the "appearance of evil" in illegally using someone else's IP in this case is VERY ironic considering their selling point is "we protect IP."

Reminds of Senator Orrin Hatch suggesting that copyright holders should be able to remotely destroy hard drives of infringers' computers... and within 24 hours, someone pointed out that his own website hosted at senate.gov was itself using infringing code!

I'm not making accusations, but a quick observation made me suspicous, to say the least. Suffice to say that as a consumer, I'm not at all impressed with DriveThruRPG.com --- and as a publisher, I am withholding judgement, though even as a publisher I am 100% against DRM in principle... had they offered me a chance to join the site (they didn't) I would not have done so unless my products would be made available 100% DRM-free.

--The Sigil
 
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I'm trying very hard not to get drawn into all this... but I can't let a comment like this run wild:

The Sigil said:
Also, I find it interesting that the site's php code, including the "labels" they use to mark vendors and products, is REMARKABLY similar to RPGNow.com's code... if RPGNow.com's code is proprietary, it's possible that this site, which touts so heavily "protecting valuable copyrighted material through DRM" is itself infringing upon RPGNow.com's code.


RPGNow.com (and RPGShop/RPGMall) are based on an earlier version of the code found here:
http://www.oscommerce.com

I told them where they could get it and they wisly (in this case) took my advice. I've been nothing but helpful to DTRPG whenever I could be. No doubt they have learned a lot directly from my mouth as well as my cusomter polls.

James
RPGNow.com (The Unprofessionals)
 

rpghost said:
James
RPGNow.com (The Unprofessionals)

:lol: :eek: :lol:

I suspect all the hubbub has helped drive a lot of PDF sales lately. I just applied a sudden influx of earnings off my one product to buy Phil Reed's two Whispering Vault colelctions (and they're TERRIFIC).


Also, I'm sure it'll help all PDF vendors and publishers that a whole slew of White Wolf, FFG, and Eden fans will be trying out PDF versions of books and getting addicted to the instant gratification of eBooks.
 

rpghost said:
RPGNow.com (and RPGShop/RPGMall) are based on an earlier version of the code found here:
http://www.oscommerce.com

I told them where they could get it and they wisly (in this case) took my advice. I've been nothing but helpful to DTRPG whenever I could be. No doubt they have learned a lot directly from my mouth as well as my cusomter polls.
Okay, cool. I just wasn't sure where you'd gotten it... whether it was an in-house development or not.

If it's not, that's cool... it's just that to those that DIDN'T know where the RPGNow.com code came from, well, it looked suspicious. All is well and good and I'll happily recant my comments on that topic (but leave them in the original post).

--The Sigil
 

Just a few observations from my perspective:

1. I didn't like the "unprofessional" swipe at RPGnow. It’s way off the mark and is inflammatory.

2. I tried to visit the DTRPG site and it was very slow, then it crashed (page not found errors)

3. I completely agree with Chuck's observation that they are trying to appear as the elite in the e-publishing arena (the cool kids). However, I think this is a bad business move for them. For one thing, SV Games is relegated to a distant second place in the e-publishing world and they have been actively trying to recruit publishers. DTRPG is trying to be the "cool kids" and will find that's not very cool at all. Either they plan to offer agreements only to those publishers who can prove themselves on RPGnow, or they don't plan to invite anyone else at all. Either way, I don't think it will work.

4. My assessment of their business model is generally negative. I think the DRM issue will create too many hurdles for buyers. For example, I use MSN. I have Adobe reader 5.0 and I don't know the first thing about an MS passport or whatever, and I don't intend to learn. I have too many other things to do with my time, and I don't like signing in/using passwords etc all the time anyway. Security, if it is to be used, must be transparent or you will lose customers. Also, the sign up process on DTRPG is something I don't want to do. That's a hurdle I'm not going to jump over unless Monte or some other publisher writes a book that I REALLY want. Also, having the DRM limit the cut and past to 10 times in 10 days is a big negative. Cut and paste is one of the most commonly used features of PDFs.
They do have a very aggressive marketing strategy, I just think their service is lacking.
The idea of having exclusive distribution deals with the publishers is also a bad move. I understand that it is important for the DRM to be effective, but there are a lot of publishers who sell their stuff on multiple sites. Not only can you sell PDFs on RPGnow and SV Games, you can also sell them through Pay Pal's e-delivery system and half-a-dozen other e-book web sites. A lot of publishers won't be interested just because of that (that is, IF DTRPG does intend to offer agreements to other publishers in the future). So they will be stuck with a small pool of "top notch" publishers, which, in the long run, isn't a great deal in my opinion.

Why?
Well, for one thing "top notch" is largely a matter of opinion. I've seen several people say they don't like Malhavoc's stuff because it is too "weird." Personally, I’ve bought a lot more stuff from RPGObjects and other “3rd tier” publishers than I have from Necromancer, Malhavoc, and Fiery Dragon.

Why?
Because anybody can write game material. I don’t see as much value in the company’s name as I do in the product concept. I’m more likely to buy a King Arthur supplement regardless of who wrote it, than some “homebrew” setting supplement, regardless of who wrote it. At this point I’m more likely to buy a book full of d20 gun stats than a book full of d20 spells, regardless of who wrote it because that’s what I’m interested in right now.

Furthermore, I think other people think the same way. One need only look at the continuously strong sales of my 22 Talent Trees to see that it is “concept" that sells a book, not publisher name recognition.

And guess which distributor has the widest range of supplements to choose from? There is simply no way that DTRPG, with their small pool of writers will ever be able to produce a range of material as broad as that carried by RPGnow. Again, The “small band of elite publishers” idea isn’t a good idea for a distributor. For a publishing company with a good market plan, maybe that’s a god idea. But if you are trying to compete with RPGnow you are going to need a wide range of products and be extremely user friendly. DTRPG doesn’t have either of those things.

5. I agree that piracy is a bad thing, but this isn't the way to fight it. Positive reinforcement will work better than widespread negative reinforcement.

6. Clearly, some of the vendors on DTRPG don't understand pricing of PDFs.

7. RPGnow has a long list of positive qualities, not the least of which is the name recognition and primacy effect of being first in the industry. They are also a lot more user friendly to the vendors and the customers than either SV Games or DTRPG. They also have a mountain of good will built up in the community.

Therefor, I predict that 1-year from now RPGnow will still be at the top of the industry. DTRPG will be a distant second and SV Games will be in 3rd place, fighting for the scraps.

RPGhost said:
No doubt they have learned a lot directly from my mouth as well as my cusomter polls.

I don't know. Seems to me that anyone reading those polls would know that limiting the cut and paste feature is a big mistake.

BTW James, kudos for not selling out. :cool:
 
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Bloodstone Press said:
Just a few observations from my perspective:

For example, I use MSN.

If by MSN you mean MSN messenger, then chances are good you have a MS passport. Unless I missed something, you do the passport thing when you sign up for messenger.
 

rpghost said:
I'm trying very hard not to get drawn into all this... but I can't let a comment like this run wild:




RPGNow.com (and RPGShop/RPGMall) are based on an earlier version of the code found here:
http://www.oscommerce.com

I told them where they could get it and they wisly (in this case) took my advice. I've been nothing but helpful to DTRPG whenever I could be. No doubt they have learned a lot directly from my mouth as well as my cusomter polls.

James
RPGNow.com (The Unprofessionals)

James,
Some times it is best to avoid a subject and other times it is best to confront.
You have done a remarkable job at treating business has buisness and being very informative and supportive.

DTRPG obviously new who the indutry leader was and grew from your knowledge and you shared it willingly to help your hobby and industry that is utterly cool.

Look at the bright side they have given you marketing fodder forever Hertz/Avis, Pepsi/Coke, Democrates/ Republicans. You have been the consumite professional.

I would like to interview you for the Xilven Trumpeter about this major change to your company. So just drop me an e-mail when you want
 

I really don't feel I understand the typical PDF buyer well enough to know whether DTRPG will work or not. There seems to be a real mystery behind what will sell and what won't on RPGNow and it just seems to be a lot to do with chance as to whether you'd be successful or not.

I seemed to have missed a lot of whats been going on the last couple of days, so I'm not entirely sure what to think about DTRPG. I can see that it might be offensive for us small publishers to be source of the inferrence that RPGNow is unprofesional, but, hell, thats business for you - there's no rules about offending the opposition.

I'm not sure I fully understand the nature of the contract agreement you get with DTRPG and how they enforce it, and as a small publisher I'm not sure I'm worried enough about my own PI to bother with it. I think most of us PDF guys put out 90%+ OGC anyway, so we're not too fussed over our PI.

However, there is one factor about DTRPG that does intrigue me; the ability to be in a smaller pond. At RPGNow we're a small fish in a very large pond, if we were to (hypothetically) move to DTRPG we'd be stil be a small fish, but in a much smaller pond, and might pick up a extra sales as a result. I've not contacted them yet, and doubt they'd want me if I did, but I have to say that the size of RPGNow does feel like it is drowning our potential at times.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just wanted to offer an alternative perspective; call it a bit of devils advocate, but I just thought I'd add something to balance the argument, and this is the best I can come up with.

Cheerio,

Ben
 

malladin said:
However, there is one factor about DTRPG that does intrigue me; the ability to be in a smaller pond. At RPGNow we're a small fish in a very large pond, if we were to (hypothetically) move to DTRPG we'd be stil be a small fish, but in a much smaller pond, and might pick up a extra sales as a result. I've not contacted them yet, and doubt they'd want me if I did, but I have to say that the size of RPGNow does feel like it is drowning our potential at times.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just wanted to offer an alternative perspective; call it a bit of devils advocate, but I just thought I'd add something to balance the argument, and this is the best I can come up with.

Cheerio,

Ben


RPGnow really isn't as big a pond as a lot of us vendors think. The problem is a need for some serious housekeeping. I went through the vendors' manufacturer pages. 98 of them have 0, 1, or 2 products listed. About another 50 only have three products listed. And many of them have not produced a single new product in more than 8 months (A few haven't done anything new in over a year). So there is a lot of clutter crowding around the producing vendors, making it look like a huge pond.

The one thing I'd like to see James do is clean out all those cobwebs, maybe divide the site up into active, semiactive, and inactive publishers, and require some sort of production schedule from publishers, say some new product every 4-6 months to remain classified as an active vendor (go more than 12 months with nothing new and become an inactive vendor). If the site did that, with a default to display only the active vendors (with semiactive and inactive vendors accessible by a menu bar link), the pond would shrink down to look the proper size. Well, I'd like to see all that and vendors shouldn't even appear on the site until they have one product active.
 
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