D&D 5E Drizzt Novel: Lolth's Warrior (Spoilers)

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
The thing you have to keep in mind (and yes I know this has been talked to death in other threads in the past and a lot of people don't agree and never will) is you have to see Fantasy gods like the Greek and Norse and etc Gods. They are powerful beings with wants and desires and personalities. With their own prejudices and desires etc etc. Take the label "good god" and thinking of it like a modern real world major god who's "all good all the time" isn't a fair match up.

Heck some of the Faerun gods where literally mortals who ascended but they know have to play by certain rules. Heck according to BG3 even Mystra likes to come down and lay some pipe, doesn't she have a Weave to manage?

Fantasy tropes say you can be a "god of good but goblins can kiss my divine butt." You are either going to "believe in magic" in these settings (as it where) or you aren't.
All of that is fine for fantasy gods in general. In D&D the gods of good literally define and exemplify for mortals what good is. They aren’t just “good from a human perspective”, they are Good. Objectively, and universally. They can be flawed, sure, but when they speak on what is Good and what is Evil, they are either correct, or the cosmology entire is false.

Google is your friend, chum.
If I have to google it, that makes my point quite well, pal.
From page 33 of Vortex of Madness: "The Titans should be considered intermediate powers."

Just in case you're not aware, "powers" was a synonym used for "gods" in a lot of AD&D.
Powers aren’t all gods, though. Titans specifically aren’t gods.
Note the listing for Moander's presentation on page 120 of Faiths & Avatars: "Moander could manifest as the intangible image of a rotting hulk that resembled a giant, floating, disembodied male human head..." So he was clearly male-presenting.
Lol in that description sure. In others it is amorphous, in other she is feminine. 🤷‍♂️
That's iffy; D&D has traditionally been very flexible as to whether or not demon lords and slaad lords are gods or not (e.g. see the note on page 90 of the AD&D 1E Deities & Demigods).
Wotc era D&D isnt flexible at all about it. A demon or slaad lord isn’t a god.
Animated GIF
Well this guarantees this will be my last reply to you. I’ve very little respect for people who behave like this.

Also Vecna ain’t a god.
Ah, so now it's "high profile" male deities of evil? You carry those goalposts! (And we all know that Vecna isn't high-profile. No sir, not at all.)
So you don’t know what nuance is. Not the flex you seem to think it is, bud.
That's understandable, given how little lore you seem to know.
😂😂😂

Right, so in other words, you complained that there were none, and when you were shown to be laughably wrong, you hastily backtracked and made it about recognizability rather than whether or not there were any.
Please quote where I claimed there were none.

Feel free to actually explain to the rest of the class why you think that 3 gods, only 1 of which is both masculine and of any importance at all (seriously who gives a damn about deities that haven’t been in a print product for multiple editions and decades and even people in thier 30’s and 40’s probably don’t know exist? Lol like congrats on being the most pedantic person in the room, I guess?) makes what I actually said “laughably wrong”?

While you’re at it, please explain how a question challenging the state of a thing in the present tense can be proven “laughably wrong” by a bunch of pedantic and questionable examples from decades ago, most of whom can’t even be assumed to be part of the game anymore.
 

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Alzrius

The EN World kitten
If I have to google it, that makes my point quite well, pal.
Haha, nope! Your "point" (such as it was) was "are there any" masculine gods of evil who are trapped in a "hell plane." And of course, when the answer turned out to be "yes, quite a lot" you suddenly pivoted to "yeah, but are they prominent"?
Powers aren’t all gods, though. Titans specifically aren’t gods.
Leaving aside that the 1E Manual of the Planes flat-out says (p. 124) "These beings, known as demi-gods, lesser gods, and greater gods, are grouped into the general category of Powers." So yeah, the titans are treated as being gods for all intents and purposes. Which is, you know, what the aforementioned Vortex of Madness says.
Lol in that description sure. In others it is amorphous, in other she is feminine. 🤷‍♂️
And yet Moander's primary presentation is masculine. Funny how you keep ignoring that when it suits your point.
Wotc era D&D isnt flexible at all about it. A demon or slaad lord isn’t a god.
Oh, so now you're asking about "WotC era D&D"? Where was that in your initial post, pray tell?
Well this guarantees this will be my last reply to you. I’ve very little respect for people who behave like this.
Pot, kettle, yadda yadda yadda.
Also Vecna ain’t a god.

the simpsons adult GIF


So you don’t know what nuance is. Not the flex you seem to think it is, bud.
I'd explain the difference between "nuance" and "never mentioning a particular qualifier at all," but given that your entire point depends on you not understanding that, it strikes me as a pointless endeavor.
And yet, no actual denial is made regarding your ignorance of the lore.
Please quote where I claimed there were none.
So you complain that your "nuance" isn't being recognized, and then turn right around and show your own inability to recognize it? Tsk.
Feel free to actually explain to the rest of the class why you think that 3 gods, only 1 of which is both masculine and of any importance at all (seriously who gives a damn about deities that haven’t been in a print product for multiple editions and decades and even people in thier 30’s and 40’s probably don’t know exist? Lol like congrats on being the most pedantic person in the room, I guess?) makes what I actually said “laughably wrong”?
Because you asked "are there any" without any sort of qualifier, and somehow think that there's some sort of magical "nuance" which means that you meant...honestly, I'm not even sure, since you've still done an incredibly poor job clarifying your original point. Of course, that's because there was no nuance in your original point, so now you're trying to go back and retroactively add something about...popularity, I think? But yeah, your original sarcastic question about where were the trapped masculine gods of evil is indeed laughably wrong, since there are many such deities.

Here, I'll even give you another one: the Chaos god, from Dragonlance, who's trapped in the Greygem. Sure, it's no "hell plane," but it's certainly relevant, since it's a major plot point regarding the recently published Dragons of Deceit novel from Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. Or does a novel from two New York Times bestsellers that's just over a year old not popular enough for you?
While you’re at it, please explain how a question challenging the state of a thing in the present tense can be proven “laughably wrong” by a bunch of pedantic and questionable examples from decades ago, most of whom can’t even be assumed to be part of the game anymore.
If you wanted to add a whole bunch of restrictions like "state of a thing in the present tense" and "part of the game anymore," then maybe you should use those the first time around so people actually know what you're talking about. Because claiming all of that is somehow magically understood nuance isn't cutting it.
 



Alzrius

The EN World kitten
Magic gems are basically the same as hell planes now but I’m moving the goalposts! 😂😂😂
Wow, that's the only point you responded to? The one where I specifically said "sure, it's no 'hell plane'"?

What can I say though, I thought you'd appreciate the nuance. :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Power Level: Lesser Deity.
Okay, Vecna is an odd duck, then, lore wise.

I don’t see anything about him being trapped in a hell plane, of course, but sure he’s a god.

Also at least in one edition, Tharizdun isn’t trapped in a hell dimension, and IIRC is explicitly not a god, but 5e may have returned him to god status.

My takeaway from this is, Lolth and Tiamat are particular, unless you take 4e lore on Asmodeus, but I have a feeling people who get pedantic about lore from 1e that’s never been mentioned again (not you, just sayin) won’t care about that.

Anyway, my point that I really thought was plainly obvious, was to question current cannon, not get a ADND history lesson, and to make the point that Lolth is given the short end so often that it’s really easy to sympathize more with her than with Corellon.

Tiamat is especially egregious, as she is a central figure in the cosmology of the current edition. Lolth at least has The Demonweb Pits thing going for her, but Tiamat is just trapped in Avernus. The battlefield of Hell. [/spoiler]
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Lolth is more the exception for trapped female god/power.

There's Amourai Shamrae (spelling?) iirc but she's an archfiend not deity. She was in the 3.5 Fiendish codex.

Can't think of to many other ones off the top of my head.
 

DarkCrisis

Reeks of Jedi
Dredging this back up because I am finally reading the book.

If Zack becomes a Fighter/Paladin of Eilistraee I will lose my mind.

Also, I'm curious to see if Drizzt gets over himself and finds religion again.

And probably not answered until the cartoon but any guesses on Drizzt's daughter's official class(es)? I'm going to guess Fighter. Maybe Fighter/Monk. Images show her mostly using 1 scimitar (twinkle?) but being able to duel wield.
 

ECMO3

Hero
The book generally seems written more true to 5E spell mechanics than previous books, with Spirit Guardians, Concentration, Divine Smite, Dissonant Whispers and Augery all really matching their DND mechanics in ways I don't remember previous books doing.
 

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