Dropping a summon bomb in a room from outside.

[UltimaGabe]

In my opinion, the caster must designate someone as a foe during/prior to the casting in order for the animal to attack it. After all, if you had a summoned monster out, and then a Doppleganger comes out disguised as a friend of yours, does the summoned monster automatically attack the Doppleganger? Of course not, unless the caster had reason to believe that this guy would be an enemy.

So unless the caster knew that there were enemies on the other side of the door (ignoring the fact that you need Line of Effect), then it wouldn't do anything. If the caster knew that there were enemies, it would attack those known to the caster.

The spell can only act upon the caster's knowledge- no new knowledge can be brought about by the casting of the spell. After all, it's a Conjuration spell, not a Divination spell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

This goes back to the ol' "Who is your ally/enemy" arguement, started whenever Hypersmurf and the spell Bless are in the same room.

I'm restraining myself

-Hyp.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I would allow the summoned creatures to help allies that the summoner can see even if the summoner cannot identify the enemies from his vantage point.

In general, the summoned creatures has no special knowledge of who is and is not an enemy.

The defintion of enemy/ally is a huge hole in the rules. Use common sense as best you can.

 

[Justin]

What if a druid with Vow of Peace summons something? Would it attack since the druid wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) attack?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

What if a druid with Vow of Peace summons something? Would it attack since the druid wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) attack?

I have not read Vow of Peace myself. Based on the precedent of summoning while Invisibility, summoned creatures attacking for you do not constitute an attack with respect to the combat mechanics. In general. But the combat mechanics alone may be insufficient to answer your question.

 

[cordell]

Victim writes:
>> Wrong. You need line of effect. You can't summon stuff through walls and doors.

The rules from the SRD which I quoted *specifically* contradict what you are saying. See the part about "...either by seeing it or defining it"?

This means you can either *see* the location where things are to appear, OR you can *define* the location where things are to appear.

Did you find a rule which supports your statement? (It's possible I missed it, I am new at this message board thing.)

 

[Scider]

As a sidenote...

how do you guys define being able to communicate with summoned creatures? It's always hit me as rather strange that Druids can communicate with summoned monsters through the use of the spell Speak with Animals since the summoned creatures aren't of the animal type, but of the outsider type. Also, for instance, Celestial creatures don't generally speak celestial if you follow the template from MMI strictly. Am I missing something? (Houseruling this might not only be wise but very practical indeed)

 

[Hypersmurf]

The rules from the SRD which I quoted *specifically* contradict what you are saying. See the part about "...either by seeing it or defining it"?

This means you can either *see* the location where things are to appear, OR you can *define* the location where things are to appear.

That's right.

However:

Line of Effect: A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast. A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creatures, or objects to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst’s center point, a cone-shaped burst’s starting point, a cylinder’s circle, or an emanation’s point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell’s line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell’s line of effect.

So yes, even if you can't see the area, you can summon a monster into it - for example, "20 feet inside the edge of that completely opaque mist".

But you must have line of effect to the space in which you wish to create an effect, such as 'one or more summoned creatures'.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

how do you guys define being able to communicate with summoned creatures? It's always hit me as rather strange that Druids can communicate with summoned monsters through the use of the spell Speak with Animals since the summoned creatures aren't of the animal type, but of the outsider type.

Uh... most of the creatures on the Summon Nature's Ally lists are of type Animal, so Speak With Animals works just fine.

The Celestial and Fiendish versions of animals on the Summon Monster lists are Magical Beasts (not Outsiders), so Speak With Animals won't work. But that's okay, because "Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise).", and the templates state "Abilities: Same as the base creature, but Intelligence is at least 3."

Thus, any summoned Celestial or Fiendish animal understands Common, since the template does not 'note otherwise'.

-Hyp.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'd say that the spell goes with what the DM understands of the PC's intentions.

For instance if the PC says "I summon an eagle to attack the creatures in the room" it's pretty clear that the eagle will attack everything in the room.

If he just randomly summons an eagle into the room, then the GM should probably say "why'd you do that?"