Drow - good for anything?

[wildstarsreach]

I am perfectly relaxed. Its unfortunate that some people hate Drow to such an extent that they misrepresent things to say +2 LA is good for a spellcaster, though, when in fact it makes them almost unplayable.

Starting at ECL 4, all you have to do is be careful?

If you are a wizard, with a con of 12, thats using a 14 on con, mind you! you have 8 hp. *8*. A single sword swing from an orc with NO strength bonus drops you. You have 1st level spells.

Other party members have upwards of nearly 50 hp. You have 8. With first level spells.

Have you EVER played these combos you claim are so great?

Yep and very difficult and challanging. However, were the benefits worth being 2 HD behind, no. That doesn't mean that it wasn't fun for a while.

 

[Seeten]

I can have fun with a kobold rogue with a 10 dex and a 3 con, it doesnt make it balanced for gameplay. Having fun roleplaying != mechanically balanced.

As I said many posts up, the only combo I know of where the benefits outweigh the suck is Paladin/Blackguard, which is clearly NOT the iconic drow.

EDIT:
To be clear, I meant Paladin and or Blackguard, not a paladin who becomes a blackguard.

 

[Darklone]

Ftr/Blackguard would be worse indeed.

Lets see what 4E brings in regard to the LA thing.

The biggest problem with LA like here is the loss of HD in combination with the huge impact of CON to hitpoints. I hope both things will see changes.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Hey guys, this exchange is getting a little heated and boarding a flame war. How about taking a deep breath and relaxing.

Excellent idea.

My apologies for adding to the snark back there. I should have learned by now.

Peace, and much Drow goodness for all! (. . . no really, I actually like the bastards.)

 

[Felix]

Its unfortunate that some people hate Drow to such an extent that they misrepresent things to say +2 LA is good for a spellcaster

I'm curious as to who said this. Would you provide a citation, please?

Peace, and much Drow goodness for all! (. . . no really, I actually like the bastards.)

Oddly, I don't think terribly highly of the buggers.

 

[Klaus]

Where does it say that they have racial HD. Nowhere that I read. If they had 2 racial HD then they would wind up being equal according to the rules of a 5th level character at 1st level.

I said *if* drow were given racial HD, that'd allow the designers to reduce the LA.

 

[Felix]

I said *if* drow were given racial HD, that'd allow the designers to reduce the LA.

How many racial HD equal +1 LA reduced?

1 racial HD, +2 LA?
1 racial HD, +1 LA?
2 racial HD, +1 LA?
4 racial HD, +0 LA?

 

[Destil]

Except due to their terrible HD and HP, they make terrible foes, too

The DM dosn't have to play by the rules. A good DM will either use the play the drow to their strengths (attacking outside of the range of PC darkvision underground, using poison and darkness to their fullest. Making use of gust of wind, dispel magic and darkness to deal with the lights of the pathetic surface dwellers) or not treat them as Level +2 CR when it comes to handing out XP. If you want a by the book reason for it, the drow encounter will be considered to have circumstances that make the fight easier for the PCs if it is expected that they can close quickly and deal with them with appropriate violence. Now if the players come up with a clever way to get around all of this then they get the full XP. But if the drow's plan is get into close combat and hit the PCs until they die it isn't going to be a by the book ECL (might not even be CR +1, depending on party makeup. A group that doesn’t use SR affected spells much would really be fighting CR = level opponents in those circumstances).

 

[Felix]

The DM dosn't have to play by the rules. A good DM will either use the play the drow to their strengths (attacking outside of the range of PC darkvision underground, using poison and darkness to their fullest. Making use of gust of wind, dispel magic and darkness to deal with the lights of the pathetic surface dwellers)

I just wanted to say that none of this here, none of these ways that DMs can make drow a tough enemy to fight, is a "DM [not] play[ing] by the rules".

They have 120' darkvision, SR, and Poison, and all of those are factored into their CR. Setting up an ambush for the PCs to walk into will increase the challenge of the encounter, but generally speaking, because of the darkvision and most races' need for illumination, an encounter with drow in the underdark will likely start by the drow being aware of the intruders first, therefore able to organize an attack, and therefore gaining a quick advantage at the outset of combat.

Once the PCs locate them and start returning fire, they will be able to kill the drow quickly; that can be a tough proposition when you don't know where in the pitch black of the underdark to attack.

 

[Seeten]

I never enter any balance discussions with the understanding that "I can just rule 0 it" I can, and HAVE rebalanced Drow in my campaign, I've rebalanced a lot of things, but that doesnt mean we cant discuss whether the original design is balanced.