Drow - good for anything?

[Seeten]

Hmm. I guess the iconic drow hand crossbow with its poison doesn't help to balance anything, right?

It might help at ECL 3, with its DC 14 poison. It doesnt help for long after. 1d4 damage and DC 14 go together like peanut butter and relish.

 

[IanB]

Anything that discourages my players from playing dark elves is fine by me!

 

[Darklone]

It might help at ECL 3, with its DC 14 poison. It doesnt help for long after. 1d4 damage and DC 14 go together like peanut butter and relish.

Tell that to our dwarven fighter with con 20 who went unconscious...

At middle to higher levels, it's still great to take out the non fighters if you hit several times.

 

[Seeten]

Page 18-19 of the Unearthed Arcana has a rule to adjust and reduce the level adjust. You guys might take a look for further discussion.

I like the rule and fully undorse its use. It makes +la races much more playable, but it is open to abuse.

 

[IanB]

I like the rule and fully undorse its use. It makes +la races much more playable, but it is open to abuse.

It is particularly abusable when bringing in a character at a level where it would have already been able to buy off the LA. We are currently using it, but I'm not sure I recommend it wholeheartedly. It works much better for races who also have some racial HD holding them back.

 

[Seeten]

Tell that to our dwarven fighter with con 20 who went unconscious...

At middle to higher levels, it's still great to take out the non fighters if you hit several times.

30 Mooks + low DC poison = good use of actions, 1 action for a PC = poor choice.

This is a case where a %5 chance of success works better when you have lots of actions, obviously with a %5 chance of success, 20 mooks makes this pretty likely to occur.

1 PC has a 95% of wasting his action for 1d4 dmg only, though.

 

[Seeten]

It is particularly abusable when bringing in a character at a level where it would have already been able to buy off the LA. We are currently using it, but I'm not sure I recommend it wholeheartedly. It works much better for races who also have some racial HD holding them back.

I play it that you must buy your LA off in game, so you cant cheese it out and start the same as the rest of the group, with 3000 less xp, like you made a magic item, or something. It still isnt hard to buy off that first +1, and thats the real killer.

 

[IanB]

I play it that you must buy your LA off in game, so you cant cheese it out and start the same as the rest of the group, with 3000 less xp, like you made a magic item, or something. It still isnt hard to buy off that first +1, and thats the real killer.

Probably sensible, although that requires some modifications to the buy-off as written, which is pretty specific about when you must pay the xp to buy off a given level.

 

[Felix]

I did a fair appraisal of the majority of base class types a bit up thread. The only classes that excel as Drow are ones with important charisma and defensive class features that bolster the SR.

As you said, the Dex and Con can cancel each other out. Who else benefits from Int and Cha?

Barbarians? No.

Bards? Absolutely. And because the bard's ability is vocal and not an attack, one can do it while Hiding as far away as the bard likes. Good Ref and Will saves, but the bard drow's Fort save will be hideous. This bard will necessarily be an archer, but that is easily done, and have plenty of abilities to buff the party and act as a face man.

Clerics? Not a whit.

Druids. Not so much.

Fighters? With ranged feats and Poison, the drow can make a decently effective archer, though the Int and Cha bonuses don't help too much.

Monks? They are the two Monk dump stats.

Rangers? No, although the 120' darkvision and the ranger's ability to attack from range synergizes very, very well. The only problem with this Race/Class combo starts with a "D".

Rogue? Oh, yeah. And because rogues will generally get ground to paste in melee, but need all the Dex they can get, the Dex/Con tradeoff works more in the Rogue's favor than other classes. The drawback is they need to be within 30' for their Sneak Attack to work. But they can cast Darkness to give themselves concealment when they need it. Stay at range, Sneak Attack when you can, and act as the party's Scout (you will be very good at this) and Mechanic. Possibly face man as well, but without a handy magical ability to disguise yourself this could be hard. Buy a Hat of Disguise.

Paladin? As you say, the defensive abilities work very well here.

Wizard? Int and Cha help, as does the SR. Wizards need Dex less than they need Con, so the Dex/Con tradeoff becomes worse for the wizard, mirroring the benefit for the Rogue. Wizards can easily fight at a distance. Some will be too attached to their caster levels to take this race, though.

Sorcerer? Cha helps, but like the wizard, the Dex/Con tradeoff is worse here. The sorcerer keeps at range nicely, perhaps better than even the wizard. Int does help get more Cha-related skills, though they may be cross-class.

So I'd say the Drow makes a good:
Bard / Rogue / Paladin

It is proficient at:
Ranger / Fighter (archer)

Will be effective at higher levels at:
Sorcerer / Wizard

And is rubbish at:
Barbarian / Cleric / Druid / Monk

It might help at ECL 3, with its DC 14 poison. It doesnt help for long after. 1d4 damage and DC 14 go together like peanut butter and relish.

If you only have one shot, it's no good. But in keeping with the drow's attack-by-stealth flavor and abilities, if you can shoot several times you have a fair shot at knocking someone out.

 

[Felix]

If brilliant players in your gaming group feel the best use of their actions is using 1d4 dmg DC14 poison weapons, I dont know what to tell you. I can make bards more effective than this.

I believe Darklone's point was that even a dwarf with a 20 Con and a favored Fort save class will fail saves v poison now and again. Shoot him enough times and he'll roll a 1, 2, or a 3.

He did say "our dwarven fighter"; I don't think the rest of the party were the ones shooting him with poison crossbow bolts. If they were, they would not be brilliant at all. If they were getting ambushed in the dark by drow, I can sympathize with a hard encounter.