D&D General Drow in early D&D

[Urriak Uruk]

Are you suggesting that citing Lovecraft's prejudice as being comparable to the Tulsa massacre is an appropriate comparison to make? Because it takes an incredible amount of privilege to defend that idea.

Obviously not, don't try to hook me into such nonsense.

But @Whizbang Dustyboots is rightly calling out some of Lovecraft's bad opinions (even for the time), and you've decided to shift the tone by saying "I'm not defending racism, but you're actually participating in supremacy!"

Maybe you should both drop it, as this thread is becoming embarrassing to read.

 

[Alzrius]

Obviously not, don't try to hook me into such nonsense.

Right back at you. I said the idea that the two were comparable was a form of white supremacy, not that any particular individual was a white supremacist.

is rightly calling out some of Lovecraft's bad opinions (even for the time), and you've decided to shift the tone by saying "I'm not defending racism, but you're actually participating in supremacy!"

Minimizing what happened by suggesting that Lovecraft should be mentioned alongside the Tulsa massacre is a supremacist notion. It suggests that Lovecraft was as bad as things got for African-Americans, and that's not acceptable.

Maybe you should both drop it, as this thread is becoming embarrassing to read.

You should take your own advice and take some time off from this thread in order to examine just what it is you're defending.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Right back at you. I said the idea that the two were comparable was a form of white supremacy, not that any particular individual was a white supremacist.

Minimizing what happened by suggesting that Lovecraft should be mentioned alongside the Tulsa massacre is a supremacist notion. It suggests that Lovecraft was as bad as things got for African-Americans, and that's not acceptable.

You should take your own advice and take some time off from this thread in order to examine just what it is you're defending.

You accused him of a form of white supremacy. Tomato tamatoe.

He used Tulsa as an example, he didn't say they were the same. You're adding subtext that doesn't exist! This is some weird attempt to deflect from criticizing Lovecraft. Two things can be bad at different degrees, I'm sorry if that's too complicated for debate.

 

[Alzrius]

You accused him of a form of white supremacy. Tomato tamatoe.

No, I pointed out that the comparison itself is a form of white supremacy. I deliberately stayed away from hurling that accusation at him, or you for that matter. That's an important distinction.

I don't think he's a white supremacist, nor that you're one. But the diminishment, unintentional though it may be, is, and it should be called as such wherever it's encountered.

He used Tulsa as an example, he didn't say they were the same. You're adding subtext that doesn't exist! This is some weird attempt to deflect from criticizing Lovecraft. Two things can be bad at different degrees, I'm sorry if that's too complicated for debate.

It's not a deflection, because no one is saying that Lovecraft shouldn't be criticized. He should be; his views were wrong and unacceptable. But neither should be held up as a "super-racist," with its suggestion that he was somehow worse than the "non-super" racists, and likewise ignoring how there were far worse acts of racism being perpetrated. To then bring up Tulsa in the context of arguing against that point is making the comparison, whether intentional or not.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

It's not a deflection, because no one is saying that Lovecraft shouldn't be criticized. He should be; his views were wrong and unacceptable. But neither should be held up as a "super-racist," with its suggestion that he was somehow worse than the "non-super" racists, and likewise ignoring how there were far worse acts of racism being perpetrated. To then bring up Tulsa in the context of arguing against that point is making the comparison, whether intentional or not.

I'm not even going to make an argument here, this whole paragraph is such plain nonsensical conjecture. I'm going to do myself a favor and just block you.

 

[Alzrius]

I'm not even going to make an argument here, this whole paragraph is such plain nonsensical conjecture. I'm going to do myself a favor and just block you.

You're saying more about your views than I think even you realize, here, and not in a good way.

 

[Voadam]

True--because they used to be human(oid) and therefore have that as a base. The other examples are too alien.

I would not say mind flayers are too alien to be reconceived as good guys.

 

[Azzy]

This has gotten silly.

 

[Faolyn]

I would not say mind flayers are too alien to be reconceived as good guys.

View attachment 138141

As fun as the Ood were, they aren't mind flayers.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I would not say mind flayers are too alien to be reconceived as good guys.

View attachment 138141

mindflayer eat people and highjack your body and enslave people they are just terrible horrible and are okay to unalive.
tentacle faced beings are not inherently evil but mindflayers suck.