D&D General Drow & Orcs Removed from the Monster Manual

[TiQuinn]

Yeah, we're just gonna re-litigate every word that ever came up as potentially offensive, aren't we.

 

[Dire Bare]

Interestingly this came up first in my google search. I was actually attempting to read up in what context is it offensive because I have seen Asian restaurants with that word in their name. Anyways.

Sigh.

So . . . not all Asian folks find the use of the word "oriental" problematic, but many do. So, it's not problematic? Do ALL Asians need to find the word problematic for it to be so?

And we're back to not all Jewish folks find the use of phylactery in D&D problematic, only some. So it's not?

Whatever dude.

 

[Gradine]

Yeah, we're just gonna re-litigate every word that ever came up as potentially offensive, aren't we.

I mean, technically we're all Barbarians. Well, maybe except for the Classics majors...

 

[Bedrockgames]

So you're suggesting that it is insincere? What's your evidence?

No I didn’t say it was insincere. I stated earlier I think people taking contrary positions to mine are sincere and that they get passionate because these are moral issues people think matter. I mentioned it was fashionable at that time because I think that is what helped give it more traction and because narratives like that one tended to get accepted more readily at the time

 

[pemerton]

A further issue with Oriental adventures is that it positions adventures in . . . Christendom? . . . as the norm; and adventures in other places as exotic and in need of calling out as distinctive or "special".

Take away that presupposition, and what we have is simply Adventures!

 

[Dire Bare]

No I didn’t say it was insincere. I stated earlier I think people taking contrary positions to mine are sincere and that they get passionate because these are moral issues people think matter. I mentioned it was fashionable at that time because I think that is what helped give it more traction and because narratives like that one tended to get accepted more readily at the time

So, some folks think these issues matter, but they don't? Because you don't think they matter? Or, rather than sincerity, it's fashionable to be more inclusive?

 

[Dire Bare]

A further issue with Oriental adventures is that it positions adventures in . . . Christendom? . . . as the norm; and adventures in other places as exotic and in need of calling out as distinctive or "special".

Take away that presupposition, and what we have is simply Adventures!

Well, kinda. It's more occidental vs oriental . . . but practically, amounts to the same thing. Othering the non-Western world as "exotic".

 

[Bedrockgames]

So, some folks think these issues matter, but they don't? Because you don't think they matter? Or, rather than sincerity, it's fashionable to be more inclusive?

You are completely misreading what I said

 

[Laurefindel]

You realize that almost every word that is considered inappropriate, rude, problematic, or offensive started out with "no pejorative meaning", right?

You're probably right about that.

Words gain pejorative (or problematic) meaning over time as one group uses them against another.

Like "oriental", for example.

Yet, I feel that censoring words is not always the solution to fight a real problem. Oftentimes I wonder if it doesn't turn out to be more hurtful in the end; a form of radicalization of sorts. The issues behind "orcs", "phylactery" and "oriental" are all very different but all come down to a form of censorship with either little explanation provided, or one that is disconnected from the reality of people living out of certain regions of the US. This is getting uncomfortably political so I'm going to bow out of this thread, but feel free to send me a PM if you wish to engage further.

'findel

 

[pemerton]

Well, kinda. It's more occidental vs oriental . . . but practically, amounts to the same thing. Othering the non-Western world as "exotic".

The PHB isn't called "Occidental" adventures, though.

That's before we get to the fact that "Oriental" centres Europe - with Asia as "east" of that centre. Which makes no sense on a globe rotating about a north-south axis.

And that's before we get to the fact that, in a fantasy world, the distribution of human peoples and cultures need not mirror that distribution in our world.