Dual and Multiclass Level cap problems.

[Crothian]

Exactly I told him to try it, then decide but he refuses.

Then, and you'll have to excuse the harshness of this since I don't know him I really can't judge, he's being just stubbornly stupid. Personally, I'd tell him him if he doesn't like it he can play a single classes character. The dual class system has stood up for over two years now. Aside from spellcasters losing levels, it's a great system. Characters become more versatile and less focused.

Also, he should know that the PHB goes up to character level 20, not class level 20. So, when all the class levels add up to 20 is where the PHB stops. With character level equal, the characters are all basically equal.

 

[KoboldTerror]

Yeah thats what he's being all right....sigh...I guess I'll just have to find away to deal with it. Thanks for the help

 

[ConcreteBuddha]

Exactly I told him to try it, then decide but he refuses.

Did you explain to him that HD, BAB and saves are added together from each class?

 

[drnuncheon]

What should I do?

Here's a few suggestions:

• Invite him to play a single-classed character.
• Remind him that class levels no longer need to be equally balanced - a Ftr10/Wiz10 in 2e is probably more like a Ftr5/Wiz10 in 3e. So he can be a powerful spellcaster and still be decent at melee when he reaches a high level.
• Point out that you as a DM are quite capable of adjusting the challenges to fit the players - and remind him that you are already going to have to do so since there are only 2 players!
• Tell him that since the level cap concerns him, you are removing it - but the 3e advancement rules are staying the same up until then. (Then you have 20 levels to decide what to do!)

Really, he's worrying over nothing - so what if he's not taking on the challenges a 20th level character is "supposed" to? Just because he's 20th level doesn't mean he is only allowed to fight CR20 opponents, after all. He is too hung up on the numbers, and he needs to trust you to run a good game.

J

 

[Victim]

A multiclass fighter mage can be superior to both a 20th level fighter and 20th level wizard.

Against the fighter, he can employ lots of combat buffs to even his odds. Assuming that the character places a slight emphasis on spells, he has access to Tenser's Transformation. Fighter feats, Tenser's, and other self buffs should prove enough to grant the fighter wizard an edge.

Against the wizard, the multiclass character has the flexibility to easily defend against common wizard tricks like Imp. Invis, Scrying, and Flight and the ability to win grapple attacks easily, or beat the wizard senseless while shielded by AMF.

Sure, many of the multiclass character's advantages can be compensated for with magic items. However, there's something to be said for intrinsic ability. Also, the multiclass character can create the weaker items that compensate his abilities. He can make his items himself and save money too.

The multiclass character has greater flexibility (duh), but also great self sufficiency. He can compensate for the weaknesses of each class. In a large team, self sufficiency isn't as important, but it's still useful.

 

[KoboldTerror]

Yup, I've done and suggested all that. But like I said he's stubborn. He argues that with such a small group they 'need' to dual or multi class just to have all there basses covered.

I think I'm gona change the rules to allow a dual or multiclass character to advance like in earlier D&D versions, but limit the hp and stuff. Each lvl will max at 20, till I get the Epic Level handbook.

 

[Crothian]

Yup, I've done and suggested all that. But like I said he's stubborn. He argues that with such a small group they 'need' to dual or multi class just to have all there basses covered.

I think I'm gona change the rules to allow a dual or multiclass character to advance like in earlier D&D versions, but limit the hp and stuff. Each lvl will max at 20, till I get the Epic Level handbook.

How about you keep things the way they are but tell him that he will be able to get past 10/10. This way nothing changes but his perspective.

 

[1337 h4xor]

in 2e multiclass characters were so over powered it was silly.

i played an elven mage/cleric/psion and at levels 8/9/9 could rape anything the dm could throw at us. that same character converted to 2e becomes 4/3/9 or some variation thereof... he would eat...

what you have to shot your stupid friend is the prestige class system which is the great equalizer in 3e for multiclass characters... classes like the spellsword, arcane archer, bladesinger make fighter mage a great possibility. the arcane trixter is an amazing class and a must have for any roge/mage. And there PRc's to suit any combo's needs.

 

[demon_jr]

i'm a bit confused...

you have a character that is 10 fighter/10 wizard.

can't he just continue getting more fighter or wizard levels at epic level?

11 fighter/10 wizard = 21 epic level character?

 

[Kae'Yoss]

i'm a bit confused...

you have a character that is 10 fighter/10 wizard.

can't he just continue getting more fighter or wizard levels at epic level?

11 fighter/10 wizard = 21 epic level character?

Fighter 11 / Wizard 10 = Character level 21 = Epic.