Pathfinder 1E Dual-Curse oracle

[Gorgoroth]

Scratches head, maybe I'm just confused by the wording :

Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll.

Let's say DM rolls X for a monster. You say, "misfortune time". He rolls Y. Regardless of what X was (since you don't know it), it picks Y, ignoring X entirely. Thus, the actual value of X is irrelevant to all actors, you, Y, and the DM and even the monster. Nobody has a choice in the matter to pick X over Y, it's always Y. So how does this grant "misfortune" at all? Y could be greater than X for all you know. Each die roll does not influence the other in any way, since you can't compare them at the time of choosing which gets used.

//still scratching my head on this one.

 

[Gfreak2x9]

Scratches head, maybe I'm just confused by the wording :

Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll.

Let's say DM rolls X for a monster. You say, "misfortune time". He rolls Y. Regardless of what X was (since you don't know it), it picks Y, ignoring X entirely. Thus, the actual value of X is irrelevant to all actors, you, Y, and the DM and even the monster. Nobody has a choice in the matter to pick X over Y, it's always Y. So how does this grant "misfortune" at all? Y could be greater than X for all you know. Each die roll does not influence the other in any way, since you can't compare them at the time of choosing which gets used.

//still scratching my head on this one.

I used to play Warhammer 40k, in Warhammer there is a special model called the Venerable Dreadnaught. It has a special rule called "Venerable" hence the name! The rule allows you to force an opponent to re-roll the result of their last roll. So basically if you got a 6 (Warhammer is a d6 system), your opponent can say "Venerable, Re-roll that!" and you risk the chance of rolling lower! I think that "Misfortune" is written terribly, therefore I would house rule that is works to the same effect as " Venerable" in Warhammer 40k. If it didn't I don't see the point of the spell. Your basically saying "Roll it twice, but no matter what take the second roll! Even if its higher!" Seems like a dumb spell the way its written.

 

[Savage Wombat]

Scratches head, maybe I'm just confused by the wording :

Misfortune (Ex): At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll.

Let's say DM rolls X for a monster. You say, "misfortune time". He rolls Y. Regardless of what X was (since you don't know it), it picks Y, ignoring X entirely. Thus, the actual value of X is irrelevant to all actors, you, Y, and the DM and even the monster. Nobody has a choice in the matter to pick X over Y, it's always Y. So how does this grant "misfortune" at all? Y could be greater than X for all you know. Each die roll does not influence the other in any way, since you can't compare them at the time of choosing which gets used.

//still scratching my head on this one.

No, you're absolutely correct, which is why you have to interpret a little bit. One interpretation is that the "result" of the roll is what you have to choose before, not the die-roll - so if you roll the dice where players can see, they can see "oh, 17, not good - reroll" but not know if the 17 was enough to hit or not. My wife's oracle uses this mostly to negate crits against PCs, since I announce them. But she primarily uses the "misfortune" to benefit her party members, since the power allows for that.

It's just badly written - but the Paizo folks say it's OK, and it's not breaking the game or anything.

 

[Starfox]

One interpretation is that the "result" of the roll is what you have to choose before, not the die-roll - so if you roll the dice where players can see, they can see "oh, 17, not good - reroll" but not know if the 17 was enough to hit or not.

This is my reading too.

(A post that could have been avoided had we had visible Xp comments.)