Duergar: I'm shocked - a flavour change I really like!

[delericho]

So I think it can be expected that there will be *many* more examples of this type of change. Mearls does like to tinker with monsters, ya know?

I rather hope not. Changes of this sort are best done in strict moderation, IMO. Just a few 'second-tier' monsters being revamped like this would be ideal for me.

 

[Li Shenron]

Duergar are a race of corrupt, devil-tainted dwarves.

Funny thing actually, I've always thought they were like that... corrupted by devils or demons after digging too deep for greed.

 

[Rechan]

KM, that warms the chockles of my heart. That is being used.

And, now seeing the origins of the Derro, they seem like a race of Charles Mansons and Leatherfaces.

 

[Deverash]

It spins a story in my head about a clan of dwarves who happened upon the source of an ancient evil, and were stained by it. Slowly, maybe over centuries, the dwarves were compelled to dig deeper and deeper, driven closer to the source of the evil that was buried in the ancient stone...what was this evil? did they ever find it? what happened to them after?

And, of course, since PCs have the "talent" of being in the right place at the wrong time, they'd be there when the tainted dwarves reach the ancient evil beneath the earth...sounds like a great campaign.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Eh, so we get Chaos Dwarves for D&D? *shrug*

 

[3catcircus]

I don't get it. Why change the Duergar when we *already* have the Durzagon - a fiendish Duergar?

I also don't see why they are bothering to do it to *this* particular creature, just to keep things fresh for veteran and new players. Frankly, almost all of the monsters in the various monster books are completely underutilized, so most players (veteran and new alike) are generally unfamiliar with most of them.

Look at the humanoid arena, for example: how often has anyone used, for example, the Skulk?

Giants? How about the Forest, Mountain, or Sand Giants?

Dragons? The Brown, Steel, or Yellow Dragons?

My point is that this just seems to be change for change's sake.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I don't get it. Why change the Duergar when we *already* have the Durzagon - a fiendish Duergar?

I also don't see why they are bothering to do it to *this* particular creature, just to keep things fresh for veteran and new players. Frankly, almost all of the monsters in the various monster books are completely underutilized, so most players (veteran and new alike) are generally unfamiliar with most of them.

Because duergar weren't much more than merely evil dwarves. I can make a merely evil dwarf with the PHB. I have done so, in fact. I like the upthread idea of a scary industrial revolution evil. I don't need the MM for that, though.

If they're going to get space in the MM, they need to be distinct from the PHB dwarves. If that includes merging together some of the 10,000 evil dwarf types together to get a more concentrated cool, that's an additional bonus.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Originally she was just a demon. Drow were corrupted and driders were intended to just be another corruption. A chaotic mess of spider and drow born from demonic chaos and not some drow who failed 4th grade. I don't like the fact Lolth went from some demon to some goddess. The original flavor was best when it came to Lolth and drow.

A demonlord also makes a more viable longterm BBEG who is pulling the strings than a god. Killing a god is harder to accomplish without open a big can of worms. A demonlord is entirely expendable on the cosmological scale.

 

[pawsplay]

Because duergar weren't much more than merely evil dwarves.

Dwarves are axes, mead, and roast meat. Duergar are endless toil in a sunless world, moving silently and eerily through the caverns.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Because duergar weren't much more than merely evil dwarves...I have done so, in fact. I like the upthread idea of a scary industrial revolution evil. I don't need the MM for that, though.

If they're going to get space in the MM, they need to be distinct from the PHB dwarves. If that includes merging together some of the 10,000 evil dwarf types together to get a more concentrated cool, that's an additional bonus.

Point #1 is that he's doing the Duergar design for an adventure. I'm guessing that we're not getting Duergar in the MM -- rather, they'll make their first appearance in this adventure. So no worries there.

Point #2 is that you're right. They need to be distinct from PHB dwarves. But as I pointed out in the thread above, adding a the dimension of stealth and giant growth (and psionics!) makes them distinct, in mechanics. And there's no guarantee that this new fluff will make them distinct in any mechanical way. I don't need an MM to do evil dwarves that devils have dealt with, either. The powers of growth and invisibility are the same powers that they'd have with the recommended industrial evil motif.

I'm all for concentrating the cool. It's why I don't think making them devil-touched is inherently a bad plan. It's just a bad plan if they're switching out the "evil industrial dwarves" archetype for the idea that they're related to devils so they can have spikes and breathe flames and have spikey beards (seriously, one of the silliest ideas for an attack on the planet).

I don't think the duergar especially NEED the excuse of "a devil did it" to be evil. So why they're being saddled with it, and why Baker thought they had "the drow of dwarves" or "just evil dwarves" thing going on, I don't understand.