Dwarven Battlerager - Hows it gonna play out?

[Goumindong]

2) At higher levels, OAs becomes harder and harder to get because there is no way to have threatening reach in the game, aside from a paragon path for a 3rd party class written by Ari Marmell. Enemies can just teleport and fly around the defenders at epic levels, in my experience at least.

You can get 1/day encounter long threatening reach from the Polearm master Paragon path in Martial Power

 

[AngryPurpleCyclops]

Dwarven Battlerager (hehehe). Im sure it will be a completely unstoppable character. Absolutely, practically unkillable....

If you are new to the forums just search a bit, you will find thread after thread after thread on the BR as it is probably the single most controversial things in the entire game, a fighter build that makes all other fighter builds (/tanks, /melee options) look pitiful by comparison.

Myself, and many many other DM's have taken the simple stance that BR's are far too OP and removed from the game. Others disagree, thats their perogative, but given the amount of bru-har this build raises I have to say "Where there is smoke there is fire"

Its entirely up to your group how you approach this, but I can say that by removing the BR our game is not neccesarily better off...but it certainly isnt worse off

I'm in the error on the side of caution camp as well. This seems like potential trouble if you get hit a lot by minor attacks you're going to get an enormous amount of extra temp hitpoints. The stacking from invigorating only exacerbates the situation.

So I'm playing a Dwarf Battlerager, level one with KarinsDad there

So just to clarify I did take 88 damage in the fight, I did take my second wind and got at least one heal - I think I got 2. I was bloodied several times in the fight and on 3 occasions was down to 2 hp before healing. So about a third of that was healing. I still have my sheet at home and can tell you how much was straight temp HP and how much healing I got - some of that number may have been the previous encounter too. I just added up how much damage I had taken on my sheet.

I'm honestly on the fence on if it is too much or not. Currently I only gain 3 temp hp. Most of the time I only had 3, a few times I had 6, twice in 4 or 5 encounters I got up to 9. One encounter I went down, and on many occasions I've been down to 2 or 3 HP before a heal. I almost always have to use my second wind and need healing to stay alive. For me the question is - if it stays that way as I level up then its balanced, if my temp hp outpace the damage dealt then it isn't.

All defenders who are soaking up attacks wind up getting healing. This is more common than not. Being down to 2-3 hp's before a heal is probably partly due to initiative order but it can be to fluke luck (the two guys who go right after the cleric both hit and one is a crit). I was in an encounter where the defender was down 4 times.

It's hard to tell if it's too much but my gut it 33 temp hit points at level 1 is an awful lot of damage prevention.

An 18 con dwarf with stoneblood gets kind of out of control. 6hp's per attack. That seems mighty broken albeit at the cost of -1 ATT probably.

 

[Mengu]

At one point I was up to 18 THP getting 4 per attack stacking on my stack.

This doesn't sound right. I'm afraid you may have been stacking incorrectly. Temp hit points from BRV do not stack. BRV only allows temporary hit points from invigorating powers to stack with existing temporary hit points. So the most you should be able to collect on your own (assuming 4 THP per attack) is 4 from BRV, 4 from an invigorating power, use action point, and another 4 from an invigorating power, a total of 12 THP. a total of 8 THP.

Every time a minion hits you doing 6 points of damage, you would lose the 4 THP, lose 2 regular HP, and gain 4 THP.

If you started the turn with 8 THP (common case when you successfully hit with an invigorating power), the first minion to hit you would do 6 damage, taking you down to 2 THP, BRV would kick in, and bring you back up to 4 THP.

Edit: I just thought of another scenario, and perhaps that's what happened in your case. If you are not hit for several rounds in a row, and your invigorating powers keep hitting, you could stack up more temporary hit points.

 

[Smeelbo]

I just started a dwarven battlerager in a small, power oriented group, and it worked quite well at first level. It made it possible to tank much longer without a healer.

So the most you should be able to collect on your own (assuming 4 THP per attack) is 4 from BRV, 4 from an invigorating power, use action point, and another 4 from an invigorating power, a total of 12 THP.

Martial Powers, page 7: "No invigorating power grants temporary hit points more than once a turn."

I have a question about

...Benefit: Add one-half your Consitution modifer to the temporary hit points granted by your Battlerager Vigor.

Obviously, this applies to the THP when you are struck in melee, but does it apply the THP gained from Invigorating powers? I ask this because the Battlerager class feature allows you to stack those THP, which you normally cannot, and therefore the feature is "granting" you those additional THP you would not otherwise gain if you did not have the class feature.

Smeelbo

 

[Mengu]

Martial Powers, page 7: "No invigorating power grants temporary hit points more than once a turn."

Nuts, I forgot about that.

Obviously, this applies to the THP when you are struck in melee, but does it apply the THP gained from Invigorating powers? I ask this because the Battlerager class feature allows you to stack those THP, which you normally cannot, and therefore the feature is "granting" you those additional THP you would not otherwise gain if you did not have the class feature.

I don't think so. There is a distinct difference in wording between this and Improved Vigor. Otherwise, they would both be worded the same way.

 

[Smeelbo]

I don't think so. There is a distinct difference in wording between this and Improved Vigor. Otherwise, they would both be worded the same way.

Obviously, Improved Vigor only applies to Invigorating powers, and is available to any character regardless of race. This does not exclude the interpretation that Dwarven Stoneblood also applies to the Invigorating THP that stack, and hence would not be gained if not for taking the Battlerager Vigor class feature. It would have been clearer if the THP gained upon being struck had been distinctly named, but unfortunately for clarity, both THP are lumped under the single named class feature.

I don't know if this is correct or not, but it is a plausible reading.

Smeelbo

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Edit: I just thought of another scenario, and perhaps that's what happened in your case. If you are not hit for several rounds in a row, and your invigorating powers keep hitting, you could stack up more temporary hit points.

This was pretty much what happened. I was able to kill a minion a round (piling 4THP on my stack) and only got hit once every second or third round. We were fighting so an unlimited number of some sort of very low AC and poor to-hit number zombies while we worked our way across a courtyard.

When a zombie would hit me, I would lose 6HP off my stack and not take my 4HP for being hit because I didn't drop below 4THP. I am pretty certain I was keeping track correctly, it was just an optimal situation for gaining THP.

DS