D&D (2024) Agathys forever

[TheAlkaizer]

I am confused by this. Reading the revised spell, there is nothing that says the damage dealt increases if the temp hps do (though upcasting increases both)

The old formulation suggests that only the temporary hit points granted by Armor of Agathys trigger the damage.

The new formulation suggests that any temporary hit points trigger the damage.

 

[el-remmen]

The old formulation suggests that only the temporary hit points granted by Armor of Agathys trigger the damage.

The new formulation suggests that any temporary hit points trigger the damage.

Yes, but the part that confused me (cleared up in an earlier post) was the amount of temp HPs effecting the amount of damage (which the spell does not say or even suggest at my reading). But thanks.

 

[Ancalagon]

Just to clarify, this is not an option without multiclassing. Bard's Magical Secrets has been redesigned in Revised 5e, and now gives full access to the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard spell lists. Armor of Agathys, however, only appears on the Warlock spell list. So you'd have to be a Bard 17/Warlock 1 to do it. And personally, if I'm playing in a campaign that gets that high in level, I'd rather aim for the class capstone than multiclass for this one specific trick.

For single class characters in the more commonly played level ranges, I think the main candidate for an AoA porcupine build is a Fiend Warlock with Fiendish Vigor. Fiendish Vigor now always gives the max result of 12 temp HP, and the Fiend's Dark One's Blessing now triggers on any enemy downed within 10ft instead of just the ones you defeat personally. Those together seem the most effective way to milk extra temp HP and keep AoA active.

You are correct, it would indeed take a multi class.

The fiending vigor is more of a low level combo, and shapeshange is a very high level one. At somewhat lower but still quite high level, power word fortify would do. Tenser's transformation is another option. Heroism would work at lower levels. I think it needs something else for the "mid" levels though, I'm not familiar enough with the new spells .

 

[kittenhugs]

You are correct, it would indeed take a multi class.

The fiending vigor is more of a low level combo, and shapeshange is a very high level one. At somewhat lower but still quite high level, power word fortify would do. Tenser's transformation is another option. Heroism would work at lower levels. I think it needs something else for the "mid" levels though, I'm not familiar enough with the new spells .

Polymorph, for sure. Getting 157 temp HP from becoming a giant ape is going to make that 25 damage when you get hit in melee go far.

 

[Dausuul]

You are correct, it would indeed take a multi class.

The fiending vigor is more of a low level combo, and shapeshange is a very high level one. At somewhat lower but still quite high level, power word fortify would do. Tenser's transformation is another option. Heroism would work at lower levels. I think it needs something else for the "mid" levels though, I'm not familiar enough with the new spells .

Polymorph. Wizard X/warlock 1 if you insist on doing it all yourself; but it'll be more effective if you go pure warlock and get Polymorphed by an ally. Then you don't have to hold concentration while getting beat on in melee, and you can use a fast-refreshing warlock slot to upcast AoA. Plus it comes online earlier.

 

[kittenhugs]

Actually, looking at polymorph has the same wording: "The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left." Shapechange also has this wording. I thought this was an oversight at first but the consistency across spells has me second-guessing that take.

 

[Ancalagon]

Polymorph. Wizard X/warlock 1 if you insist on doing it all yourself; but it'll be more effective if you go pure warlock and get Polymorphed by an ally. Then you don't have to hold concentration while getting beat on in melee, and you can use a fast-refreshing warlock slot to upcast AoA.

So in a way, polymorphe would be like shape change, except you don't get to use an action to change your shape and get another boat-load of temp HP (if the new shape is tough). Thank you.

 

[Dausuul]

Actually, looking at polymorph has the same wording: "The spell ends early on the target if it has no Temporary Hit Points left." Shapechange also has this wording. I thought this was an oversight at first but the consistency across spells has me second-guessing that take.

I think it was a deliberate choice to remove the need to keep track of where your temp hp came from.

Not sure they considered all the implications...

 

[Kurotowa]

Let's not go overboard. Using AoA and some additional temp HP sources is good for surviving in melee with you otherwise have middling AC and HP. Creating an entire multiclass build around a single spell combo is probably a bit much. It's a very narrow optimization that's entirely dependent on your DM playing along, and IME most DMs run out of patience with this sort of thing.

AoA doesn't work on ranged attacks, save based attacks, or anything immune to cold damage. Or if the DM starts throwing Dispel Magic around. Or the NPCs decide to just kill the rest of the party first. What I'm saying is, don't put all your chips on it and don't test the DM's patience.

 

[mellored]

Polymorph, for sure. Getting 157 temp HP from becoming a giant ape is going to make that 25 damage when you get hit in melee go far.

Keep in mind THP doesn't stack, and the spell ends when it runs out.

So while you get 157THP.
You "loose" the 25 you had.

Also, it that doesn't work against ranged attacks or dragons breath.


Still a good combo, but not quite as potent as it might first seem.