D&D (2024) Agathys forever

[Ancalagon]

So armor of agathys is an interesting spell. It's both offence and defense in one, so it can't be too good at either or it's overpowered. It's always been best when comboed with something else which allows you to "stretch" the spell, to inflict more damage with it - have the spell "fire" several times, in other words. For example one of my players had a warlock 5/fighter 3 and would use the parry maneuver to preserve the AA's temp hp so he could inflict the AA's damage repeatedly (it worked well!). But that was about all you could do - the temp hp of AA couldn't be recharged.

But the rules for AA have changed!

From: "If a creature hits you with a melee attack while you have these hit points, the creature takes 5 cold damage."

to the new 2024: "If a creature hits you with a melee attack roll before the spell ends, the creature takes 5 Cold damage. The spell ends early if you have no Temporary Hit Points."

So, based on the reading of the new spell, especially when combined with reading the old spell, it seems you can now recharge the AA's temp HP! And 2024 has plenty of potent ways to do that.

I thus prevent my first ever (I think?) OP combo, certainly my first one for 5e. I'm pretty proud of this one.

If you are a high level warlock, you could upcast AA with a 5th level slots (edited for clarity), and then use a number of means to keep it topped up. But the real wonbo combo is taking magical secrets as a bard to take both AA and Shapechange - shapechange has also been changed and now gives you a ton of temp HP. So go ahead and change into a dragon/giant/you get the picture, rampage around! Anyone who dares hit you will take 25 cold damage. When your temp HP are running low, just bamf into a new form and voila, more temp HP!

 

[DarkCrisis]

It was Agathys all along.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Seems to me like a significant improvement. I never used 5.0's armor of Agathys for that reason; it's simply too fragile, especially at higher levels, especially because you have to be hit by a melee attack, not simply attacked by an opponent. It only triggers when you are going to take damage either way, and frankly, shaving off only 5 hit points from a single attack is not worth one of your two spell slots. By the time it's actually good, you have far better choices. I genuinely don't understand why optimization guides love this spell so much.

 

[kittenhugs]

A warlock 1/moon druid X build is looking pretty spicy right about now. Cold spicy.

 

[Dausuul]

Low-level combo: Get the Fiendish Vigor invocation. This allows you to top up your temp HP at will. So you have 12 temp hp, renewable with an action whenever you want; and as long as you don't let them get taken to zero, you deal 5 cold damage to anyone who hits you in melee. At level 2, this is devastating.

It doesn't scale well into higher levels, but that's where you have your wizard buddy Polymorph you into a giant ape armored in ice. Get some undead minions and call yourself Night King Kong.

 

[Mannahnin]

Seems to me like a significant improvement. I never used 5.0's armor of Agathys for that reason; it's simply too fragile, especially at higher levels, especially because you have to be hit by a melee attack, not simply attacked by an opponent. It only triggers when you are going to take damage either way, and frankly, shaving off only 5 hit points from a single attack is not worth one of your two spell slots. By the time it's actually good, you have far better choices. I genuinely don't understand why optimization guides love this spell so much.

Probably because they assume you're using it as a Warlock, so it's always up-cast? At 5th level Warlock it's 15 temp HP, so even with the weaker 2014 version if you get hit in melee for less than 15, then hit again exhausting the remainder, you're dealing out a total of 30 cold damage.

I found it pretty good in the Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign I played in as a Hexblade.

 

[Kurotowa]

If you are a high level warlock, you could use AA at level 5, and then use a number of means to keep it topped up. But the real wonbo combo is taking magical secrets as a bard to take both AA and Shapechange - shapechange has also been changed and now gives you a ton of temp HP. So go ahead and change into a dragon/giant/you get the picture, rampage around! Anyone who dares hit you will take 25 cold damage. When your temp HP are running low, just bamf into a new form and voila, more temp HP!

Just to clarify, this is not an option without multiclassing. Bard's Magical Secrets has been redesigned in Revised 5e, and now gives full access to the Cleric, Druid, and Wizard spell lists. Armor of Agathys, however, only appears on the Warlock spell list. So you'd have to be a Bard 17/Warlock 1 to do it. And personally, if I'm playing in a campaign that gets that high in level, I'd rather aim for the class capstone than multiclass for this one specific trick.

For single class characters in the more commonly played level ranges, I think the main candidate for an AoA porcupine build is a Fiend Warlock with Fiendish Vigor. Fiendish Vigor now always gives the max result of 12 temp HP, and the Fiend's Dark One's Blessing now triggers on any enemy downed within 10ft instead of just the ones you defeat personally. Those together seem the most effective way to milk extra temp HP and keep AoA active.

 

[el-remmen]

Anyone who dares hit you will take 25 cold damage.

I am confused by this. Reading the revised spell, there is nothing that says the damage dealt increases if the temp hps do (though upcasting increases both)

 

[kittenhugs]

I am confused by this. Reading the revised spell, there is nothing that says the damage dealt increases if the temp hps do (though upcasting increases both)

They're implying you would cast Armor of Agathys with a 5th-level spell slot (25 temp HP, 25 cold damage when hit), then use a spell like shapechange to give you more temp HP to keep that "25 cold damage when hit" thing going despite the initial 25 temp HP running low

 

[el-remmen]

They're implying you would cast Armor of Agathys with a 5th-level spell slot (25 temp HP, 25 cold damage when hit), then use a spell like shapechange to give you more temp HP to keep that "25 cold damage when hit" thing going despite the initial 25 temp HP running low

Doy! I don't know how I missed that given that I even mentioned upcasting. Scratch what I asked.